| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| richfed |
Posted - January 29 2003 : 05:53:56 AM
It's there in the script; Eric Schweig talks of it in our interview ... Should the oft-discussed Alice/Uncas "love" scene have been included in the Director's Cut version of LOTM?
All comments welcomed below! |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| winglo |
Posted - May 23 2010 : 5:45:56 PM
I saw the 1936 movie. The Uncas character was lovestruck with Alice in that movie. He verbalizes it during the course of the movie and in the death scene, after the fall from the cliff, he reaches out to grab her hand right before he dramatically dies--you know how death scenes used to be, i.e. the characters head suddenly drops to the ground. If I remember correctly, Alice, on the other hand, is aware of his interest, but she makes no romantic gestures toward him, other than smiling. Of course in 1936 Hollywood a white, female movie star could NOT have shown interest in a native american character in a movie.
On the other hand, while Hawkeye and Cora look each other in the eye at the end of the movie (and you know they are going to become involved), their relationship is NOT an important part of the movie at all. Uncas' interest in Alice is THE central male/female relationship of the movie. |
| Flammable |
Posted - May 22 2010 : 12:55:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by richfed
It is a matter of record that a love scene and romance WAS called for in original drafts of the script. That is indisputable. A bit more than what we see WAS filmed, according to Eric Schweig.
I read some time ago what Schweig said in an interview about the scene (on this site, I think?) and he didn't seem to remember that well what they filmed. He sort of seemed to mumble something about the scene possible being "puppy love" which doesn't really say much about what was included and he just as well might have remembered that hugging and thought about it as "puppy love". Jodhi May was 16-17 years old at the time of filming so I think it is more believable that her mother objected to any "real" love scene between them and nothing more than this hugging and sort of was filmed. What did make it to the final cut is not of sexual nature at all and it just would seem tasteless if that hugging would have continued with something a bit "more". maybe there was kissing etc. but my interpetation is that Alice is in such a messed up state at that point in the movie that this could be explained as trying to hold on to someone at all, nothing much romantic about it.
What I am trying to do is to see the most logical answer from the point of view of the story and what wee see in the movie and what I think the writing team possibly had in mind. Of course anyone can see what they want in there but I want to interpret the movie as logically as possible. I mean, Mann must have had logic and cohesion behind the final edit he sent to movie theaters. He must have had the story in his mind as a one whole story.
Has anyone seen the 1936 movie version? The screenplay was a major influence on the 1992 movie. Was there any romance between U & A? Of course it doesn't mean much either way but still it is a nice little piece of the puzzle. |
| richfed |
Posted - May 22 2010 : 09:24:05 AM
Clearly, this is all a matter of perspective. Some people see/feel it; others don't. It is also a matter of degree. To some, it smacks you in the face; to some it is merely hinted at; others still, don't see it at all. It is a matter of record that a love scene and romance WAS called for in original drafts of the script. That is indisputable. A bit more than what we see WAS filmed, according to Eric Schweig.
So, I don't see a code to be cracked. I simply see people [some, not me] seeing remnants of what was certainly originally intended in the film.
Me? I'm happy the way it is! |
| Flammable |
Posted - May 19 2010 : 5:32:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Kathy S
The director's cut could have done something more to clarify a romance between Alice and Uncas. It was strongly implied in the original release.
I just watched the theatrical european dvd release. I've been reading a lot about people saying things about the romance _between_ Alice and Uncas. I didn't read this whole topic right now but I must ask am I really the only one or one of the very few who has noticed that the movie gives absolutely no reason whatsoever to think Alice has feelings for Uncas? It's obvious Uncas has feelings for Alice but there is not a single scene in the movie not even a look from _Alice_ indicating that she has any romantic feelings for Uncas.
Even the scene under the waterfall where Uncas takes Alice in to his arms doesn't indicate in any way whatsoever that Alice has feelings for Uncas - it could have been anyone who takes Alice in his arms and Alice would have just been in that weak and fragile state like a leaf and stayed there. This fragile nature is the whole point of her character; Cora is the strong one, clearly.
And when it comes to the suicide scene where Alice commites suicide there is no reason to believe she does it because she has feelings for Uncas. It is clearly because of her mental breakdown and to my understanding this is very clear - no reason to believe she has a romantic motive, just because Uncas has doesn't mean she has. Something snaps inside her head at that moment after seeing all that violence and killing and blood; then she is absolutely scared to death (I remember reading somewhere here on the forum -I think- this properly discussed in lenght and I can't see why some are sill hoping to see a romance between A&U). The whole essence of the character of Alice is that she is this young, innocent and fragile girl who gets thrown in the middle of all that is going on in the movie and in the end she can't take it no more and she snaps. To me it has been clear all along that Alice suffers a mental breakdown; even the look in her eyes when Sachem is giving his judgment clearly indicates that she is loosing her mind and scared like crazy(very talented actress May is I must say based on how much she expresses with her facial expressions without saying anything when her character doesn't have much lines). Based on what we see in the movie I can't see any reason to see more of this hypothetical romance between Alice & Uncas because I doubt there is one; it is a one sided thing meant to give Uncas a motive for the final fight scene because without it the final scene would make no sense. The little tiny bits of Uncas that indicate his feelings for her don't mean that something bigger was cut from the film but that these small bits were added just to explain the reason for Uncas to go and fight Magua and his party. I am sure this is what the writing team had in mind.
From what I read they didn't even film any love scene between them(her mother objected) and if there even was such a scene seriously in Mann's mind for the film the writing team probably re-wrote some of the script or adjusted some of it. Scripts change, this happens.
I read the one version of the script that is available on the net and there are many scenes that were done more or less differently in the movie so the version of script and what it says doesn't prove a thing. The only thing that matters in the end is what Mann filmed and how he filmed it and for what purpose in the movie.
So, to sum this up: all that there is romanticly relevant about Alice & Uncas is already there in the film. There is no reason to think based on what we see in the movie that there is more or even that there should be more.
Edit: I must add that has anyone thought about this: possible one good interpretation of U&A is that Uncas doesn't unnecessarily feel _romantic_ feelings about Alice but that taken into consideration what kind of a character Alice is Uncas is actually feeling mainly _pitty_ towards her! And in the end of the movie that pitty translates in the middle of all that chaos into somekind of fatherly, brotherly feelings for her mixed with a little bit of feelings of affection! For all that he knows she is taken by Magua and the band to be executed, raped or something horrible like this and his decision to react to this doesn't unnessecarily mean it is love that affects his reaction.
This is the best interpretation of this relationship between them that I can think of and taken into consideration the lack of feelings from Alice to Uncas fits prefectly the movie in general. Thinking about how Alice doesn't have feelings for him made his feelings seem irrelevant to me(except for the final scene) but when you take into account these other feelings of what he is going thru this makes perfect sense to me now; the whole point of their relationship was not love that was left on the cutting floor, it was more complex! There is even more logic behind all this when you think about why would the writing team consider TWO love stories in this film when the main love story is between the two stars, why would there be another irrelevant love story? Even if they did write two love stories the team understood this error in the middle of filming and decided to cut it out of the film anyway.
This approach makes the movie even more beautiful to me because this approach clears the irrelevance of the supposed romance between Uncas & Alice and I believe I have cracked this code. |
| James N. |
Posted - March 12 2010 : 11:00:56 AM
I totally disagree - although it's a shame to ever LOSE anything, I'll trade Clannad, etc. any day for the proper and originally planned Courier/Heyward's Diversion as FINALLY seen in the Director's Cut! |
| Light of the Moon |
Posted - March 09 2010 : 5:08:44 PM
I don't know
But I do hope it's the Theater Version. Directors Cut was ok but I prefer the Theater. All those shots and close-ups of Uncas and all those other Native hotties in all their glory! |
| winglo |
Posted - February 17 2010 : 11:11:31 AM
Well, it's my understanding, from other posts on this site, that the Blu-Ray of LOTM is going to be released. So, what version is going to be released? Director's Cut? (uggh), the original version seen in theaters?, or something new? Does anybody know? |
| Kathy S |
Posted - February 16 2010 : 03:02:38 AM
Hello to all! Every five years or so I have to put in my 2 cents worth. So, here goes. The director's cut could have done something more to clarify a romance between Alice and Uncas. It was strongly implied in the original release. What other reason was there for Uncas to have tried so hard to fight Magua and his warriors for Alice? After all these years, LOTM is still my favorite movie, but it's not because of the editing. The original, as well as the director's cut could have been edited better, I think. |
| angele |
Posted - April 23 2009 : 01:21:24 AM
The scene should be put back in, but tastefully done. An audience can handle a main story and a secondary story. When I saw the movie the first time, I was completely confused when Alice jumped off the cliff. This should not have happened. If that part of the story was left in then there would be no confusion. Also I would like the other scenes in a "deleted scenes" too because there had to be more to the story. Up to three hours in unedited raw version, right? I read the book too and the movie is so much better story-wise than the book. |
| di-mc |
Posted - January 12 2009 : 1:52:31 PM
I've posted this same message on another topic site, looking for answers. Last night I watched a recording I made of LOTM from TV which aired back in the spring of 08. This partticular version is different from all other showings that I've seen on TV and also different from the DVD. The whole film is zoomed, more close-ups and more dialogue. Also, when the 3 are running up the rock face mtn. searching for Cora, Alice, Heyward, there is music and vocalization in the background. At the end, there is more contact between Cora and Hawkeye, and Chingachook doesn't give the longer speech - the one that Hawkeye responds with "that's just my father's sadness talking". That whole sequence is missing. Does anyone else know about this version? What's up? |
| Kay |
Posted - January 12 2009 : 1:08:49 PM
OK so I'm really modest when it comes to this kind of thing so I went to the script and read the behind the waterfall scene w/ Uncas and Alice. And this is my thought. Ever since I first saw the movie-even before I became engrossed in it I loved Uncas' and Alice's relationship way more then Hawkeye's and Cora's. Why? Because of its subtleness. The looks they exchanged and the few times they held each other w/out much dialogue were sooo powerful- they didn't have to touch to be powerfully connected. The acting of both Eric and Jodhi was amazing and very talented. Less is more isn't it? I guess I wouldn't mind maybe a few more good looks or maybe a kiss/hug but if the "love" scene between Uncas and Alice is more then that-is what it is in the script-then their relationship would be totally ruined for me. I don't need to know that much-that's way too much. Especially for Uncas and Alice who both seem so good and pure with a very pure,strong, lasting love-not just a physical relationship w/out meaning. Like I said before, I love Uncas' and Alice's relationship b/c of its subtleness-that is what makes it MAGICAL. I know I'm such a girl!
Kay |
| nipponophile |
Posted - November 19 2008 : 09:14:24 AM
Thanks Irish for your kind welcome 
I take your point winglo, having a degree of the unknown remain and leaving something up to the imagination can make something more compelling because it has more possibilities to be what you want. It's a fine balance between providing just enough and too much, though, and I think LOTM didn't, to my mind, get it quite right. I still think there could have been just a little more Uncas-Alice lovin' in the film without crossing the line into nothing-left-to-imagine territory. |
| winglo |
Posted - November 18 2008 : 3:45:56 PM
quote:
Originally posted by nipponophile
So maybe Mann was right to leave the Uncas-Alice falls love scene out of the final theatrical version, because its inclusion may well have caused EVEN MORE focus on Uncas-Alice.....
I don't agree, nipponophile. I think he was right to leave it out, but not for the reason you suggest. I think the unknown is what makes Alice/Uncas so attractive. It is because most of their "love" is created in our imagination (I know, I know some on this board don't think it's love) that it keeps us attracted and interested. If we knew more, we'd be less interested. We know more than enough about Cora and Hawkeye, so the imagination has no where to go. But, Alice and Uncas are able to go/do/be anything in the mind, so we stay interested.
|
| Irishgirl |
Posted - November 18 2008 : 1:00:48 PM
Late with the greetings too but welcome to our community nipponophile. Hope to see you posting a lot around here. |
| nipponophile |
Posted - November 18 2008 : 10:59:09 AM
Thanks for your welcome, blackfootblood! It is so nice to find people who love LOTM and, of course, fellow Uncas/Uncas-Alice fans! |
| blackfootblood |
Posted - November 17 2008 : 5:26:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by nipponophile
Woo-hoo!!! I'm a pathfinder! With a star and everything! Small things......
Isn't it a wonderful thing once you become a Pathfinder!! Oh and by the way, welcome to the board. I'm alittle late on things these past few weeks.  |
| nipponophile |
Posted - November 17 2008 : 12:16:50 PM
Woo-hoo!!! I'm a pathfinder! With a star and everything! Small things...... |
| nipponophile |
Posted - November 17 2008 : 12:13:47 PM
Just watched LOTM again over the weekend and it was striking to me how much graphic screen time was devoted to the development of the Hawkeye-Cora relationship as compared to the Uncas-Alice relationship. That Michael Mann judged that to give any extra screen time to explore Uncas-Alice's budding relationship, paltry as the existing amount of screen time was, would "take away" from the 'main' love story between Hawkeye and Cora is testimony, in my mind, to the relative power/depth/purity of the love Uncas and Alice had for each other, as portrayed on screen through only (almost) wordless exchanges, lingering gazes and on all-too-brief passionate embrace. So maybe Mann was right to leave the Uncas-Alice falls love scene out of the final theatrical version, because its inclusion may well have caused EVEN MORE focus on Uncas-Alice.....BUT I still wanna see the love scene as filmed, so yes, a 20 or 25-year anniversary special edition DVD release with this scene included as a special 'extra' deleted scene would be fabulous.....
Oh, and Obi, even I, HUGE Uncas and Eric-circa-1992 fan that I am, believe that Eric could have aged better than he has...the consequences of excess, I guess. |
| Obediah |
Posted - November 16 2008 : 10:05:49 PM
I was never hot looking but I was 25 once IIRC, back around 1971!  |
| winglo |
Posted - November 16 2008 : 7:48:32 PM
I was a hot-looking 25 year old once, too. How about you, Obi? |
| Obediah |
Posted - November 13 2008 : 11:36:08 AM
quote:
Originally posted by nipponophile
....Eric was one hot 25 year old.......
The key word here being "was." |
| RedFraggle |
Posted - November 13 2008 : 08:24:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by nipponophile
. . . I never get tired of watching either one of them, particularly Uncas....Eric was one hot 25 year old.......
Look out, guys. Another Uncas lover joins the board!  |
| nipponophile |
Posted - November 11 2008 : 12:32:29 PM
Oh, what I would give to see the filmed but never seen Under the Falls love scene between Uncas and Alice....an absolute crime it was deleted from the theatrical version and Director's cut, it would have helped alot to explain to the viewers why Uncas so readily risked his life for Alice. As for it taking away from the 'main' love story of Hawkeye and Cora....so what? Even without the missing Uncas-Alice bits, LOTM for me has always been about THEIR love story rather than that of the main protagonists, whose passion never seemed to resonate with me, it was the quiet, gentle blooming of affection and love between Uncas and Alice that captivated me from the start, and got me so invested in this movie. I never get tired of watching either one of them, particularly Uncas....Eric was one hot 25 year old....... |
| Light of the Moon |
Posted - January 11 2008 : 10:29:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Obediah
I'm the sane one here! 
Uh-uh , you're crazy.
Only a real nut case would say they were sane. |
| nativedoll |
Posted - January 11 2008 : 08:55:16 AM
I've only just found Mohicanland, but even I'm not sane.
And I rather like it that way.
P.S. To keep this post at least fractionally relevant to the topic, my vote went for the deleted scenes extra. I love quiet love. |
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