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LAST OF THE MOHICANS

The Last of the Mohicans ...

Time span?

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T O P I C R E V I E W
di-mc	Posted - February 17 2009 : 12:05:33 AM After watch LOTM many, many times, I still can't come up with a reasonable time span from start to finish. Has anyone figured this out? Maybe it's explained in the book - which I haven't read in quite some time.
19 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Monadnock Guide	Posted - February 25 2009 : 8:17:02 PM http://www.heritagebooks.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HBI&Product_Code=J0337&Category_Code=
James N.	Posted - February 25 2009 : 7:27:36 PM One of the most interesting modern accounts of this sort of event I've read is John Demos' 1994 book The Unredeemed Captive. She was the daughter of a settler in Deerfield, Mass. when it was obliterated by a French & Indian party ca. 1704, and was not "unredeemed" through lack of trying by her father who had survived. I believe her mother was killed because she couldn't keep up with the raiding party; when she grew old enough she was wed by one of the warriors in what was probably a Catholic ceremony. Subtitled "A Family Story from Early America", it goes to great ( almost tiresome! ) detail in regard not only to this instance, but the overall situation as well. To make a very long story short, she never returned from captivity because she loved her husband and family and refused to come "home". Her husband even visited her family in later life ( I think after her death from natural causes ) and is said to have been welcomed by his white "in-laws". If I remember right, they lived in the settlement of Canawauga Mohawks near Montreal.
Bookworm	Posted - February 25 2009 : 07:04:30 AM My reading on the subject leads me to believe that Cora and Alice's chastity was safe for all time, because among the Indians of the northeast (I don't know enough about others to say), rape was absolutely forbidden, never sanctioned, virtually unheard of. I don't claim to have read all the captivity narratives, but I am not aware of any evidence in the historical record that any captive was ever raped. A principal reason for this was adoption practices -- a captive might end up as a warrior's mother, sister, or daughter, so the incest taboo had to be observed pre-emptively. This didn't preclude a female captive from being constrained to enter into a marriage unwillingly. In fact, a copy of the script that I donated to the Gathering a few years back contained a line from Hawkeye to Cora that made this possibility explicit -- "a warrior may take you as a wife," or something to that effect. From a captive's point of view such an arrangement might be perceived as not all that different from rape, but from the Indians' point of view it was as different as could be.
richfed	Posted - February 23 2009 : 8:57:07 PM quote: Originally posted by James N. Rich, This was obviously a well- and long-established village of wigwams, not a hunter's or warrior's camp. ( Note especially all the women & children. ) This couldn't possibly exist anywhere within the bounds of Iroquoia, which lay from Lake Champlain on the east to Lake Erie on the west; and from Ft. Pitt in the south to Canawaugha near Ontario in the north. Of course this wasn't all occupied by the Iroquois; but everyone within was either Iroquois by heritage or alliance. Some, like the Canawaugha and Seneca were French-leaning. Non-Iroquois like those around the Forks of the Ohio ( Ft. Pitt/Pittsburg ) were made to "toe the line" through a system of what have been called "proconsuls" ( think like those of the Roman Empire: Pilate, etc. ). That's why George Washington's ally against the French in 1755 was called the "Half-King" by the English ( it wasn't his NAME ); he was one of these Iroquois "administrators" appointed by the "central government" in Onondaga. The Iroquois, though their power was definitely slipping, were still powerful and feared enough to absolutely prohibit the existance of ANY rivals like these Huron within their "sphere of influence"; ANY opposition to this would've brought about the absolute slaughter of the transgressors, like the fate of the hapless Eries I've mentioned before. Therefore this villiage simply HAS to be in modern Canada, no doubt north of the Mohawk villiage at Canawaugha, the French settlement at Montreal, and the St. Lawrence/Great Lakes waterway. I think you can easily figure that Magua's company moved at a reasonably fast-pace without really hurrying, and that it took a relatively LONG time for Hawkeye, et al. to catch up with them, following recovery from their own ordeal; arriving in the best Hollywood tradition at about the same time as Magua. Remember the "I WILL find you" pep talk he gave Cora, no doubt since he KNEW they were going to be separated for what was no doubt a considerable time. If you care to think about it, what "saved" Cora and Alice's CHASTITY during this long period spent with Magua and his followers would have been the supposed taboo during "active campaigning" by some of the Woodland tribes. They apparantly feared that sexual or other unnecessary contact with females, even their own, would somehow affect their "medicine", bringing curses upon their venture. ( Mass rape MIGHT be possible once they'd returned from their expedition; but that hasn't happened - YET. ) Good points all, James.
James N.	Posted - February 23 2009 : 8:46:33 PM These long ventures for war and plunder were little or nothing to the tribes. The Iroquois were in the habit of raiding from upstate New York down through the Shennandoah Valley of Virginia all the way to Tenn./Ga. to get at their long-time enemies the Cherokee. They'd pass harmlessly right through the small English and German settlements on the way, since they were allies of the English. This suited the frontiersmen just fine, too; since the Cherokee were implacable enemies of white expansion. One aspect of the Fort William Henry debacle that's worth remembering is that the number of Indians the French managed to enlist in the project was for the time almost impossibly HUGE. Some had come from the FAR Great Lakes area, even farther than this tale is describing. It's on par with the equally remarkable number encountered in that much-better-known fight of Custer's over a century later.
Fitzhugh Williams	Posted - February 23 2009 : 6:02:13 PM I was watching a DVD last night produced by CBC called "Canada: A People's History". It stated that after the attack by the Iroquois ub 1649 only about 1000 Hurons remained alive. Some went to the Qubec area for protection and others went far to the west.
lilyvonstudt	Posted - February 23 2009 : 4:33:29 PM quote: Originally posted by James N. If you care to think about it, what "saved" Cora and Alice's CHASTITY during this long period spent with Magua and his followers would have been the supposed taboo during "active campaigning" by some of the Woodland tribes. They apparantly feared that sexual or other unnecessary contact with females, even their own, would somehow affect their "medicine", bringing curses upon their venture. ( Mass rape MIGHT be possible once they'd returned from their expedition; but that hasn't happened - YET. ) Like any good sportsmen Wonder did they go cavorting with strippers down at the local tavern afterwards though?
James N.	Posted - February 23 2009 : 1:19:46 PM Rich, This was obviously a well- and long-established village of wigwams, not a hunter's or warrior's camp. ( Note especially all the women & children. ) This couldn't possibly exist anywhere within the bounds of Iroquoia, which lay from Lake Champlain on the east to Lake Erie on the west; and from Ft. Pitt in the south to Canawaugha near Ontario in the north. Of course this wasn't all occupied by the Iroquois; but everyone within was either Iroquois by heritage or alliance. Some, like the Canawaugha and Seneca were French-leaning. Non-Iroquois like those around the Forks of the Ohio ( Ft. Pitt/Pittsburg ) were made to "toe the line" through a system of what have been called "proconsuls" ( think like those of the Roman Empire: Pilate, etc. ). That's why George Washington's ally against the French in 1755 was called the "Half-King" by the English ( it wasn't his NAME ); he was one of these Iroquois "administrators" appointed by the "central government" in Onondaga. The Iroquois, though their power was definitely slipping, were still powerful and feared enough to absolutely prohibit the existance of ANY rivals like these Huron within their "sphere of influence"; ANY opposition to this would've brought about the absolute slaughter of the transgressors, like the fate of the hapless Eries I've mentioned before. Therefore this villiage simply HAS to be in modern Canada, no doubt north of the Mohawk villiage at Canawaugha, the French settlement at Montreal, and the St. Lawrence/Great Lakes waterway. I think you can easily figure that Magua's company moved at a reasonably fast-pace without really hurrying, and that it took a relatively LONG time for Hawkeye, et al. to catch up with them, following recovery from their own ordeal; arriving in the best Hollywood tradition at about the same time as Magua. Remember the "I WILL find you" pep talk he gave Cora, no doubt since he KNEW they were going to be separated for what was no doubt a considerable time. If you care to think about it, what "saved" Cora and Alice's CHASTITY during this long period spent with Magua and his followers would have been the supposed taboo during "active campaigning" by some of the Woodland tribes. They apparantly feared that sexual or other unnecessary contact with females, even their own, would somehow affect their "medicine", bringing curses upon their venture. ( Mass rape MIGHT be possible once they'd returned from their expedition; but that hasn't happened - YET. )
richfed	Posted - February 21 2009 : 3:18:01 PM Gotta be some sort of film maker's license ... the village must have been within several miles. Maybe a renegade band. Magua was clearly a renegade!!
James N.	Posted - February 21 2009 : 2:21:22 PM August when the fort surrendered - but how long would it take to WALK, as Fitz says, "north of Georgian Bay...a LONG way from Fort WH"? ( I can't imagine they RAN the entire way, like in the movie! ) Also, Hawkeye, et al. must've taken a while to recover from going over Glen's Falls - at least long enough to spread out their POWDER so it could dry.
Wilderness Woman	Posted - February 20 2009 : 6:56:44 PM No, not quite. August is still very much summer, even up in these parts!
James N.	Posted - February 20 2009 : 3:18:39 PM Sharp eyes will note a little bit of "fall color" along the fateful uphill path right before all hell breaks loose and 3 of our main characters find themselves on the way to the Happy Hunting Ground. Michael Mann's shooting schedule fell SO far behind, is was Oct. or Nov. by the time they got to Chimney Rock to film that. I've always thought it was kind of plausable, though, since that would've been so much farther north somewhere in Canada. So by then, it may have almost been fall!
di-mc	Posted - February 19 2009 : 7:53:29 PM Thanks to all, even MG!!! Several weeks makes sense. I've always wondered about the comment made by Jack to Hawkeye - does his reason for staying at the fort "wear a striped skirt". In the movie it seems that Hawkeye, Cora & the rest have only been at the fort a single day. That wouldn't be enough for Jack to know about Cora and Hawkeye's interest in her.
Kay	Posted - February 18 2009 : 10:12:32 AM quote: Originally posted by Fitzhugh Williams The Hurons had been almost exterminated by the Iroquois in 1649 and the remnants the moved north of Georgian Bay. That's a LONG way from Fort WH. This extermination of the Hurons by the Iroquois was what was mentioned in the movie Black Robe- it's all making sense now! Kay
Fitzhugh Williams	Posted - February 18 2009 : 09:46:53 AM The Hurons had been almost exterminated by the Iroquois in 1649 and the remnants the moved north of Georgian Bay. That's a LONG way from Fort WH.
richfed	Posted - February 18 2009 : 09:04:35 AM I pretty much agree ... the events at the Fort could not have been more than a few days. The cave scene is at Glens Falls, NY -- not far from Albany. The Huron Village must be in the Adironack Mountains, I suppose, so yeah, 3 weeks, or so, seems about on target. MG's take, though, is much simpler!!
Bookworm	Posted - February 18 2009 : 05:10:48 AM Let's focus first on Jack Winthrop's travels: At the Cameron farm, somewhere on the frontier, he says, "We'll go to Albany." The frontier might not have been all that far from Albany, but I think that journey would still have taken a minimum of several days. Then, after confronting General Webb in Albany and saying "You've got yourself a colonial militia, General," he goes north to Fort William Henry. By the time Hawkeye and company arrive at the fort, Jack and friends look pretty well ensconced there. So, a journey of maybe several weeks from Cameron's farm to Fort William Henry? I think the events there occurred over several days, not much more. Then, the really tricky part as far as estimating time goes: the journey to the Huron village, which is a well-settled place a good distance from the fighting but still not as far as the Huron lands on the Great Lakes. So, days or maybe weeks to get there? Altogether I'd say we're talking a period of several weeks at least.
Obediah	Posted - February 17 2009 : 12:30:03 PM No one loves a smart but everyone loves a little!
Monadnock Guide	Posted - February 17 2009 : 07:08:02 AM Somewhere about two hours, ... ;)

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