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LAST OF THE MOHICANS

The Last of the Mohicans ...

Burial Ground

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T O P I C R E V I E W
Fitzhugh Williams	Posted - October 21 2007 : 11:10:46 AM When the gang is at the burial ground, and the Indians and the farby Frenchman come up, they are whispering. Then the Frenchman says something and the Indian says "Non!". Then the Frenchman says "Pourquoi non?" And the Indian says in a louder voice "Non!". I have been trying to figure out what it is that the Frenchman says first. In is not in the script, and not in the subtitles. Anyone know what this might be? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Fitzhugh Williams	Posted - March 02 2021 : 07:24:51 AM Shows you how busy I have been lately.
Monadnock Hiker	Posted - March 01 2021 : 7:39:41 PM Time wise this has to set a record here ... well done.
Fitzhugh Williams	Posted - February 27 2021 : 10:56:45 PM So, to continue this thread from October 2007, I consulted with a friend and our conclusion is that the Frenchman (who, by the way, would be from the Compagnies franches de la Marine) says upon seeing the Hurons hesitate to go into the area which turns out to be a burial ground: « Ainsi là bas ? » And as to the Frenchman, the script says: "French Rangers ("Coureurs des Bois") from Le Regiment de la Sarre." So,(1) the French didn't have Rangers, (2) Coureurs des Bois were illegal traders who had mostly disappeared by the SYW, (3) the Regiment de la Sarre was a unit from France itself and all its soldiers would have been native to France, and (4) any sort of operations like this would have been carried out by the Compagnies franches de la Marine. And the dress and standards of hygiene would have been different. And it only took me 14 years to sort this out.
Light of the Moon	Posted - October 28 2007 : 12:46:04 PM quote: Originally posted by RedFraggle quote: Originally posted by Fitzhugh Williams When the gang is at the burial ground, and the Indians and the farby Frenchman come up, they are whispering. Then the Frenchman says something and the Indian says "Non!". Then the Frenchman says "Pourquoi non?" And the Indian says in a louder voice "Non!". I have been trying to figure out what it is that the Frenchman says first. In is not in the script, and not in the subtitles. I just watched the movie again, and after playing this scene back a few times, I believe I heard the Frenchman say, "Ainsi lá va" ("So get over there"). That would make the dialogue go (with FF for Farby Frenchman ): FF: Ainsi lá va. Huron: Non! FF: Pourquoi non? Huron: C'est non possible. But I can't make out anything after that. Could this be right? My French isn't so good. I can't speak a word of it but I can understand un peu. Don't 'cha wish we could get captions on that little bit?
Monadnock Guide	Posted - October 27 2007 : 4:21:36 PM I think there was some Polish in there too. ... ;)
RedFraggle	Posted - October 27 2007 : 3:06:11 PM quote: Originally posted by Fitzhugh Williams When the gang is at the burial ground, and the Indians and the farby Frenchman come up, they are whispering. Then the Frenchman says something and the Indian says "Non!". Then the Frenchman says "Pourquoi non?" And the Indian says in a louder voice "Non!". I have been trying to figure out what it is that the Frenchman says first. In is not in the script, and not in the subtitles. I just watched the movie again, and after playing this scene back a few times, I believe I heard the Frenchman say, "Ainsi lá va" ("So get over there"). That would make the dialogue go (with FF for Farby Frenchman ): FF: Ainsi lá va. Huron: Non! FF: Pourquoi non? Huron: C'est non possible. But I can't make out anything after that. Could this be right? My French isn't so good. I can't speak a word of it but I can understand un peu.
James N.	Posted - October 24 2007 : 9:22:16 PM As a long-time reenactor, I'd like to weigh in on my understanding of the origin of the term "farb". I started reenacting in '76 during the Bicentennial, and read in some reenacting journal like The Rebel Index or Camp Chase Gazette that it IS an acronym, and comes from some backcountry Rev. War event that had no trouble attracting backwoodsmen to be Revolutionaries, but advertised for participants who were "Fairly Authentic Resembling British". Apochriphal story? Very likely, but yet another explaination for the term!
Bookworm	Posted - October 24 2007 : 8:22:37 PM I'm afraid we've been Hollywoodized again, Obediah. I found this description of burial practices among Indians of the Northeast prior to contact with Europeans: "When death came to a late-prehistoric woodland Indian, male or female, his relatives--perhaps, as among the Iroquois, those of the opposite moiety or of his spouse's clan--prepared him for burial by dressing him in his finest clothing, painting his face to advantage, laying him in a flexed position, knees drawn to the chest, and wrapping him in a great fur robe. Following a public display of mourning and lamentation, led frequently by professional female mourners, feasts were given and orations made to honor the dead and console the living. Within a certain number of days . . . the corpse was carried a short distance to the village or clan cemetery. There a round or oval pit had been dug and lined with fur, bark, or woven mats. When the flexed figure was lowered into the shallow grave, his relatives sometimes placed near or on him one of his favorite possessions, such as a man's stone pipe or a woman's shellbead necklace. The body was normally placed on its side, the head oriented in no predominant direction. The grave was filled only after the body had been covered with branches and bark to prevent dirt from touching it. Since some graves were quite shallow . . . heavy logs or stones were often placed on them to deter marauding animals. And finally, in many--perhaps most--tribes, the graves of prominent warriors and leaders, male and female, were specially marked by circular palisades, painted posts depicting the person's lineage and deeds, elaborate fur draperies, or earthen mounds. Although the dead were gone, their survivors, especially spouses, were expected to mourn for a prescribed period until released by the decedent's kinfolk. . . .Out of respect for the dead, cemeteries were revered and refurbished. If the burial took place in a house, which was not uncommon, the bark was removed from the frame and the occupants moved to new quarters. In many tribes, particularly the Great Lakes Iroquoians and the tribes of the Delmarva Peninsula, reburials of the cleansed bones of many individual interments in communal ossuaries served to bind the living through the dead. But at no time could the dead be mentioned by name. . . .As Father Joseph Lafitau observed, 'no idea is more marked among the Indians in general than respect for the dead and for the memory of their ancestors.'" This is taken from "The European and the Indian: Essays in the Ethnohistory of Colonial North America" by Professor James Axtell of the College of William and Mary. The practices described are said to be a basic pattern that had local variations. Professor Axtell notes that contact with Europeans resulted in some changes, in some places -- for instance, placing the body in a coffin or hollowed-out log, extending the body to its full length instead of placing it in a flexed position -- but in general, "[o]utside the praying towns of New England and New France, the Indians changed their funeral customs remarkably little during the colonial period." So, Hollywood did get something right, namely, the great reluctance any Indian would have for desecrating a graveyard. I think the choice of corpses on burial platforms was simply Hollywood's way of telegraphing "INDIAN GRAVEYARD" to the viewing audience, who might not know what a pile of logs or a fur drapery was meant to indicate.
Fitzhugh Williams	Posted - October 24 2007 : 10:12:30 AM Guess it's time to put the DVD in my computer. I can tell a lot more about it there than on the TV.
Light of the Moon	Posted - October 24 2007 : 12:13:08 AM Getting back on subject, in the DVD the frenchman says, "Possible la." Because he doesn't understand why the warrior has stopped. The warrior, "Non, pas possible." Frenchman, "Pourquoi non?" Warrior, "Non!" Translation is easy enough to figure out w/out speaking french but here it is: "It's possible." (Meaning, that it is okay to walk on). "No, it's not possible." "Why not?" "No!" On VHS it was the same script so no difference there. Yes, I watched them both to make sure I didn't miss something. But didn't hear him say "allons" at all, btw allons does mean "let's go", so well done there! The other thing that french speaking people will pick up is the firm way the warrior said "Non!" the second time. According to my college professor, who was native to france when a "Non" is spoken with firmness it's final, no ands, ifs or buts. To persist is the same as asking for a arguement or at least a good fight when questioning indian war chiefs, which apparently that warrior was or he would be giving commands to a frenchie.
Fitzhugh Williams	Posted - October 23 2007 : 12:31:36 AM quote: Originally posted by Bookworm And Fitz may object to the definition of "booshway." Sound about right to me.
Obediah	Posted - October 22 2007 : 10:59:43 PM I LIKE IT!!! Especially "dilligaf" and "yuppie larva." I have bookmarked this page.
Monadnock Guide	Posted - October 22 2007 : 8:42:57 PM Bookworm - that is a great link. Some REALLY good stuff there, ... everyone should take a look. ;)
Bookworm	Posted - October 22 2007 : 8:30:35 PM I did a quick lunchtime Google search for the origins of "farb," and found the same explanations that Fitz and Obediah have offered here. Another possibility that popped up is that the word is a contraction of "fake garb." One of the websites I found offers a very amusing list of reenacting terminology: http://www.historicgames.com/glossary.html Don't miss "deedle"! And Fitz may object to the definition of "booshway."
Fitzhugh Williams	Posted - October 22 2007 : 5:56:19 PM quote: Originally posted by Wilderness Woman Great explanation, Obi. The first time I heard or read that word, I thought, "Huh? What the heck does that mean?" Now of course, I know what it means. What I don't know, and nobody seems to know, is what is the origin of the word? It isn't a "real" word. It must be an acronym. But... what is it? Any idea? So the story goes, that back in the '60's with the 100th anniversary of the Civil War, reenacting was just starting to take off. There was a commander of one of the PA regiments who was fond of speaking in German, as some from PA were. One of his big complaints was the color of the uniforms. He would rant about "die Farbe". Not everyone knew, or cared, what the German word meant, but they did know he was unhappy with their impression. Gradually farbe came to mean anything that was not correct, and was applied to people who did not care whether they were correct or not, but just came to play "Yankees and Rebels". The Rev War 200th anniversary events were peopled mostly by CW reenactors as that who did it back then, so the terminology carried over. Also, a lot of the myths we are trying to get rid of today originated in that time period with the help of some authors who wrote "authentic" books by attending events and looking at the reenactors.
Gadget Girl	Posted - October 22 2007 : 2:21:05 PM These posts got my curiosity up about some of the other things that were "miss-heard" in the movie, so I went back, many moons ago to the old board archives and found a topic that covers some of them. http://www.mohicanpress.com/wwwboard/1998b.html Hope that links works! Scroll down the page to a post titled "What did they say????" on 08/01/98 (about 2/3 of the way down) and read through the posts. It is funny - even the captions folks heard one statement wrong! This will also give those newer folks a chance to see what the old board functioned like. You may find a topic or two throughout that section that may be of interest also! I spent a couple of HOURS in there reminiscing! ENJOY - GG
Obediah	Posted - October 22 2007 : 2:10:23 PM Hmmm, the origin of "farby." This is probably apocrophal (did I spell that right?), but here goes: Many moons ago (before I started ACW reenacting in '78) there was a well-known reenactor (somewhere "back east"), whose name I have long forgotten, who had become greatly concerned about all the "polyester patriots," who finally complained at a big reenactment saying, "far be for me to complain, but..." Makes sense to me!
Batawana	Posted - October 22 2007 : 1:13:06 PM HEY FITZ AND DIANA...I THOUGHT THE SAME THING ON THE "YOU KNEW THEM WELL" QUOTE...I PUT THE TV ON HEARING IMPAIRED AND LEARNED ALOT.....HA WHO WOULD KNOW CAROL B...CAN'T WAIT TIL 'O8
Wilderness Woman	Posted - October 22 2007 : 12:18:43 PM Great explanation, Obi. The first time I heard or read that word, I thought, "Huh? What the heck does that mean?" Now of course, I know what it means. What I don't know, and nobody seems to know, is what is the origin of the word? It isn't a "real" word. It must be an acronym. But... what is it? Any idea?
Obediah	Posted - October 21 2007 : 11:30:48 PM Just in case anyone here doesn't know the meaning of the word "farby," it is a slang term used by reenactors of every historical period which means not historically accurate or not "authentic." These are the two extremes of reenacting (sort of like far-right vs. far-left). The folks who are obcessed with historical accuracy (the authentics) are called "hardcore" while the "polyester patriots" or "non-authentics" are called "farbs." Although everyone starts out more or less as farbs (which BTW is not a problem with the hardcores) it is the people who never improve their impression (and stay non-historical) are the farbs who are loathed by the hardcore/authentics. "Thus endeth the lesson." And on a sorta-kinda related note, I understood that only the western (plains?) tribes which placed their departed on raised platforms, not the eastern natives. Is this true or have we been "Hollywoodized" once again?
RedFraggle	Posted - October 21 2007 : 7:23:10 PM quote: Originally posted by Gadget Girl . . . I always cackle though everytime Major Heyward says "My corns hurt, Sir! Take her and get out!" Oh, wow. That is funny. Actually laughed out loud with that one. Now I'll probably giggle every time I see that scene. Thanks a lot, GG!
Fitzhugh Williams	Posted - October 21 2007 : 4:41:29 PM quote: Originally posted by Wilderness Woman Well, I'm right there with you on that one! I remember that we all discussed this several years ago, and I was convinced... convinced!...that was what she said. And I thought it was so neat, that his legend had preceeded him. Then people here burst my bubble and one day, I actually sat in front of my TV, rewinding and playing that sentence over and over, until... finally, I had to agree that was not what she said at all. Drat. Well, I know what she says, and it still sounds like "So you're the one" to me. quote: GG.... "My corns hurt, Sir?" Oh my goodness! That is so funny! And here I sit, all by myself... staring at my computer screen, laughing out loud. Corns hurt? A little heat will fix that right up!!!
Wilderness Woman	Posted - October 21 2007 : 3:57:34 PM quote: Originally posted by Fitzhugh Williams Well, every time I hear Cora say "You knew them well" it still sounds like she says "So you're the one" to me. I guess that says something about my English. Well, I'm right there with you on that one! I remember that we all discussed this several years ago, and I was convinced... convinced!...that was what she said. And I thought it was so neat, that his legend had preceeded him. Then people here burst my bubble and one day, I actually sat in front of my TV, rewinding and playing that sentence over and over, until... finally, I had to agree that was not what she said at all. Drat. quote: And the Frenchman? Blue tuque, heavy beard? No way! Maybe in a bad movie set in the 1830's. And the description in the script? Pure fantasy. It could have been correct with out spending an extra dime, except maybe for the cost of a shave. Ah. I see. Thanks. GG.... "My corns hurt, Sir?" Oh my goodness! That is so funny! And here I sit, all by myself... staring at my computer screen, laughing out loud.
Gadget Girl	Posted - October 21 2007 : 2:53:02 PM quote: Originally posted by Fitzhugh Williams quote: Originally posted by Wilderness Woman [quote]I thought you were the one who understood French, Miss-yer Lay Fran-say! ) Well, every time I hear Cora say "You knew them well" it still sounds like she says "So you're the one" to me. I guess that says something about my English. Hey Fitz - I thought that TOO for a while. I always cackle though everytime Major Heyward says "My corns hurt, Sir! Take her and get out!" I just have trouble hearing the real words ever since this was discussed on the old board! Thanks Fitz! I just love when a post makes laugh out loud in a room all by myself!
Fitzhugh Williams	Posted - October 21 2007 : 2:42:11 PM quote: Originally posted by Wilderness Woman [quote]I thought you were the one who understood French, Miss-yer Lay Fran-say! ) Well, every time I hear Cora say "You knew them well" it still sounds like she says "So you're the one" to me. I guess that says something about my English. And the Frenchman? Blue tuque, heavy beard? No way! Maybe in a bad movie set in the 1830's. And the description in the script? Pure fantasy. It could have been correct with out spending an extra dime, except maybe for the cost of a shave.

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