| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| LeyLana1462 |
Posted - June 22 2006 : 10:09:20 AM
We all agree that we love LOTM but I'm just curious if there is anything that anyone disliked or it just didn't sit right with you.
For me it would have to have been the under the falls scene.
I don't know but it just didn't seem to flow for me.
I mean where Nathaniel says "No matter what.....etc etc" up until he jumps. I realise he would probably have had to yell even for the mics but everytime I see that bit I get this reall 'urgh' sort of feeling because it just feels so overacted.
I am totally and completely in love with this movie and love that he pledges he will find her but it almost felt soap opera-ish........ hmmmmmmmmmmm.......... Okay, WW, can I borrow a blind fold now please........     |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Lady of Glencairn |
Posted - July 13 2006 : 02:52:40 AM
I must admit that Im always opting for the movies set in historical times as opposed to the more modern efforts ... I like the whole atmosphere, the costumes, the language differences, the behaviours and etiquette ... it can be such a colourful experience! |
| raindrops |
Posted - July 12 2006 : 9:10:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by LeyLana1462
Wow! That is actually very deep and thoughtful Raindrops.
Thank you.
quote:
You know my biggest problem is I tend to analyse movies too much....lol....
My friends hate me going to horror flicks or suspense flicks with them because while they're sitting on the edge of their seat and jumping at every little thing I sit there going "oh, come on, you can see that was coming.....blah de blah de blah.. ."......tee hee heee
Yeah, I do that too. After a while it becomes difficult to get any excitement from these films with this approach, though..
quote:
No matter, I still think this one of the best films ever made.
No doubt..
 |
| LeyLana1462 |
Posted - July 10 2006 : 7:39:40 PM
Wow! That is actually very deep and thoughtful Raindrops. I guess it could be taken that way hey. I can see why the part under the falls is now special to you.
You know my biggest problem is I tend to analyse movies too much....lol....
My friends hate me going to horror flicks or suspense flicks with them because while they're sitting on the edge of their seat and jumping at every little thing I sit there going "oh, come on, you can see that was coming.....blah de blah de blah..."......tee hee heee
Too much film study at school.
No matter, I still think this one of the best films ever made.
I like the way tho that so many people found differing parts of the movie didn't sit right for them. It shows how diverse we are in what we look for in a film, I think.
I noticed there are a few of us don't like when Nathaniel says to Duncan that one day they are going to have a serious disagreement. I loved that bit, the look on DDL's face was like, 'watch it fella', I loved it. |
| raindrops |
Posted - July 10 2006 : 6:46:02 PM
Thank you WW for your very insightful remarks. I understand what you and LeyLana write about DDL's acting in the Cameron's Cabin scene, I saw it too, and I also thought it was great piece of acting.
However, I do see something similar in the way he speaks when he tells Cora "and they stay as they lay" and when he gives his "farewell speech" under the falls. That is probably why I get an idea of it being his acting technique.. Well, watching the film too many times and analyzing every moment changes one's perspective a little..
Under the falls Hawkeye also felt very emotional and at the same time tried to speak in a controlled way (as "real men" always do), only the surroundings were a bit louder.. He was very upset having to leave Cora (as that was the only possibility of survival - apparently), not knowing if he ever sees her alive again but not being able to accept this.. He did not just beg Cora to stay alive, it looked to me as if he almost pleaded with fate to let her live through this. In short - he made almost unbearable decision and was overwhelmed by emotions but tried to stay focused.. That's how I saw it.. |
| LeyLana1462 |
Posted - July 10 2006 : 6:00:08 PM
Aaaaah, see, there you go, I hadn't heard the 'submit' bit!
teee hee eheeee, can you just see it? Cora being submissive! |
| Wilderness Woman |
Posted - July 10 2006 : 08:23:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by LeyLana1462
I'm thinking to myself, what, you think she's just going to suddenly drop her bundle and kill herself????, she's a strong woman who has already endured quite a bit.
I can't tell if you are being facetious here or not, but he didn't think she would commit suicide. He knew that she was a very strong and somewhat feisty woman and would probably fight her captors in every way she could. You may recall that he told her to submit? He was trying to tell her to calm her feistiness, submit to whatever the Indians did to her (use your imagination here), obey them, and do whatever she had to do to stay alive. In short, he wanted her to do whatever it took to make certain they had no reason to kill her. |
| LeyLana1462 |
Posted - July 10 2006 : 02:16:57 AM
Hey Raindrops, how's it goin?
Yeah, I agree with WW here. At Cameron's cabin you could see the pain and anger welling up within him.....I felt his pain there.
But, under the waterfall when he is yelling at Cora, for me personally, it almost feels as if he's had a s...t of a day, he's wet tired probably got a headache from the producers constantly saying cut etc and just threw the lines out, do you know what I mean???? It's really hard when you're typing things to sort of put it how it sits in your mind
I think for me it felt like the lines where he says "no matter what happens, just stay alive, you hear me, just stay alive, I will find you, no matter what I will find you".......or something like that. It was a loving gesture on his part but didn't feel right.
I'm thinking to myself, what, you think she's just going to suddenly drop her bundle and kill herself????, she's a strong woman who has already endured quite a bit.
For me it just felt as if that tiny part of the movie didn't flow.
But definitely not Cameron's cabin, that was pain and anger in his voice and face.
Not only that but Now I don't want to get political here because this isn't the place for it buuuuuttttt........ She was thinking as a Christian person, they at least deserve a Christian burial etc. .... someone may be able to help me here but I'm not sure that the Native Indians would have all been Christian in those times, they had their own Spiritual beliefs. He would have been thinking more on a practical level, he knew what moving the bodies would do, where as Cora and her friends were thinking as Christians and that was her arguement.  |
| Wilderness Woman |
Posted - July 09 2006 : 8:55:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by raindrops
...when he insisted that the bodies of his friends at Camerons' cabin were to be left unmoved.. I could never make my mind up whether the way he spoke was forced or very natural for someone who is extremely upset but does not want to let it show..
I have always thought that he spoke very deliberately, with a tightly controlled anger. In other words, deep inside he was very upset and angry at what had happened to the Camerons. He was also angry that he had to take the time to try to explain his reasoning to a woman who was strange to the ways of the wilderness and who was attempting to give him a difficult time about his decision. He was talking to Cora almost through clenched teeth in an effort to remain calm, yet in command of the situation.
I thought it was a fine piece of acting. |
| raindrops |
Posted - July 07 2006 : 10:26:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by LeyLana1462
I agree with what a lot of you are saying about the Love etc behind what was being said but it is the way that DDL says it that gets to me, not so much the lines.
It felt forced.
Maybe it's hard to act 'sincere' when you have mega tonnes of water crashing down around you and you have to scream to be heard, even by boom mics
I just wonder LeyLana - is under the falls the only scene where you find DDL's acting not very convincing and natural? I believe he spoke in similar manner on more occasions in LOTM, for example when he insisted that the bodies of his friends at Camerons' cabin were to be left unmoved.. I could never make my mind up whether the way he spoke was forced or very natural for someone who is extremely upset but does not want to let it show.. I would come to different conclusions at different times. Maybe it's DDL's acting technique..? |
| Lady of Glencairn |
Posted - July 07 2006 : 09:40:42 AM
Hmmm ... no, cant imagine Alice doing that. Oh well, in the end things panned out as planned ... well, almost (minus Alice and Uncas death). And its not as if that scene makes the movie awful ... on the contrary, its a favourite of many. |
| Irishgirl |
Posted - July 07 2006 : 09:25:02 AM
If you check the board Lady there was a whole other thread that discussed just that subject, why they jumped and left the girls there. It was decided that they were experienced outdoorsmen and that jump was treacherous enough for them to do and survive. The girls would never have survived the jump, probably drowning if the jump itself did not kill them. Can you really imagine Alice doing that? I can't. |
| Lady of Glencairn |
Posted - July 07 2006 : 08:19:52 AM
That thought occured to me. Why couldnt they just have all jumped together? Or was there the fear that the women wouldnt survive that jump? |
| LeyLana1462 |
Posted - July 07 2006 : 07:54:00 AM
That's right. Going on other scenes throughout I would have expected for Uncas to have grabbed Alice's hand and jumped and Nathaniel grab Cora's???????? |
| Lady of Glencairn |
Posted - July 07 2006 : 06:53:13 AM
I agree Leylana ... I too have felt for some time that the waterfall scene was a tad 'forced'. I also somehow cant understand why he would just leave them there ... considering that ANYTHING could happen to them. |
| LeyLana1462 |
Posted - July 03 2006 : 5:59:51 PM
I agree with what a lot of you are saying about the Love etc behind what was being said but it is the way that DDL says it that gets to me, not so much the lines.
It felt forced.
Maybe it's hard to act 'sincere' when you have mega tonnes of water crashing down around you and you have to scream to be heard, even by boom mics |
| raindrops |
Posted - June 30 2006 : 5:48:44 PM
Guess what, Irishgirl.. Whatever Uncas wanted to communicate to Alice before the take off, he did it with, ehm... looks not words again.. (that's according to the script). |
| Irishgirl |
Posted - June 30 2006 : 1:08:14 PM
I agree Raindrops she is more concerned about his welfare than her own and tells him to go. She does not want any harm to come to him. She is definitely in LOVE with Nathaniel. I wonder did Uncas say goodbye to Alice and they just cut that part out, probably as it would seem so cold especially if they just were intimate, for him to just go without saying anything. |
| raindrops |
Posted - June 29 2006 : 9:05:19 PM
And look how understanding Cora is, saying: "You try. With all you have. To save yourself. If the worst happens, and only one of us survives, something of the other does, too ." She doesn't mind him deserting her at all. What an attitude - she is not concerned about her own fate but about his survival. Is that what we call TRUE LOVE?? |
| raindrops |
Posted - June 29 2006 : 8:55:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Stephanie
, what gal hasn't dreamed of a man looking at her the way Hawkeye looks at Cora just before he runs...
Stephanie
Yeah..
I wonder what is the feeling of being looked at in this way by that special man, while not knowing if one will live through the next 5 minutes.. But instead knowing that the dream guy will not be there to find out.. |
| Irishgirl |
Posted - June 29 2006 : 4:18:38 PM
Well I just love this scene under the Falls. The way Nathaniel looks at Cora and says "stay alive, no matter what occurs, I will find you". Just beautiful and then he leaps into the waterfall. What a stunning and beautiful moment. I am with you Stephanie in that we can all dream about that happening to us although in my case it would be Uncas saying the words and not Nathaniel. |
| zinvor |
Posted - June 29 2006 : 3:00:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Stephanie
Fitz,
Movies aren't meant to be watched hundreds of times over and over and scrutinized in the way we have done. But the first time or two you see it... gosh, what gal hasn't dreamed of a man looking at her the way Hawkeye looks at Cora just before he runs...
Stephanie
Hmm, I haven't... It did seem strange to me from the very first time and still does. Although I can't say I didn't like the scene at all. I always thought it was great. |
| Stephanie |
Posted - June 28 2006 : 9:50:00 PM
Fitz,
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that the first time you saw it , that scene was okay. Movies aren't meant to be watched hundreds of times over and over and scrutinized in the way we have done. What seems trite and overacted to us is perhaps OUR fault for watching it too many times. But the first time or two you see it... gosh, what gal hasn't dreamed of a man looking at her the way Hawkeye looks at Cora just before he runs...
Stephanie |
| Fitzhugh Williams |
Posted - June 28 2006 : 6:37:50 PM
The first time I saw LOTM I thought the sceen was great. But each time I have seen it since it seems more overacted and a little strange. Isn't the hero supposed to die for the women he loves? Or something like that? Fight to the last breath? But it sort of comes off like "Well, Cora, old girl, we had a good thing back at Fort WH, but I suddenly remembered that we are supposed to be heading west to Can-tuck-ee, and I really wish you could go with us, but we gotta make this jump through the waterfall, and we will probably be killed anyway, so why don't you just go with Magua and his boys, and if you are real nice to them, maybe they won't do a whole lot to you and Alice. Don't know about Duncan and Soldier #2, though." |
| raindrops |
Posted - June 28 2006 : 6:02:13 PM
Hawkeye's emotional manner of speaking would have been understandable and moving if we knew for sure that what he was about to do was the only possible option, but - contrary to WW's opinion - his taking off just somehow doesn't seem right to me..
Well, I might be wrong here.. |
| zinvor |
Posted - June 28 2006 : 05:31:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Wilderness Woman
But don't you see? That is exactly what he was doing! As far as the "pathos", as you say, he had only a few, very brief moments to let her know his plan. He spoke with extreme intensity.
He had reasons, that's true. In those circumstances that was the only right thing to do to try to save her. Of course he was not a coward and was ready to die for her and he proved it more than once. But there's something wrong with it, i just can't help it.
As for Nathaniel's little speech I do understand why you (and many many others) love it. But for me such words sound strange. I think he's overacting. If he was going to follow her as soon as possible there was no need for his tirade. I'd be more impressed and affected if he spoke less pompous and tumid. |
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