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LAST OF THE MOHICANS

The Last of the Mohicans ...

Would Alice have lived?

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T O P I C R E V I E W
paazau	Posted - April 10 2006 : 07:03:31 AM First up, apologies if this has been discussed previously. I did a search of the archives and couldn't find anything, so... here goes.... Mountain Man's thread got me thinking about Magua's plans to kill Munro and wipe his seed out forever, and Sachem's decision that Magua take Alice "so that Munro's seed doesn't die and Magua's heart is healed." Magua is obviously pretty pi**ed off with Sachem's decrees, so would he have been likely to care about letting Alice live? (this is of course assuming that Hawkeye and Chingachgook hadn't been able to rescue Alice if she hadn't jumped - highly unlikely I know given their fabulous fighting ability , but we're supposing here....) I suspect if she hadn't jumped, and wasn't rescued, she was a goner anyways. What does everybody else think?
17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
raindrops	Posted - May 24 2006 : 6:08:57 PM I agree it would have been very hard for Alice to live with the Hurons, even if Magua adopted her as a daughter. After all, it was him and his people who were responsible for the loss of her loved ones. She must have been terrified of them and hated them. If she had been adopted she might have tried to escape and she might have succeeded with the help of Hawkeye and Cora. Like paazau wrote - possibilities are endless. Alice ending up as a happy member of Magua's family sounds very unlikely, but then - we have seen stranger things happen. ;)
Irishgirl	Posted - May 24 2006 : 1:06:02 PM I agree zinvor with all of your comments. Magua was merely out to avenge the murder of his family, his beloved children and the loss of his wife to another man because she believed him dead. I can certainly sympathise with his character. It would have been great if they had done a "flashback" scene showing his village being burned down and his children killed. I never hated Magua just did not like when he had to kill our beloved Uncas but again he did not set out to deliberatley kill Uncas, Uncas just got in his way and he had to get rid of him.
zinvor	Posted - May 24 2006 : 02:38:00 AM As for Magua I don't feel pity for him but I do feel a certain sympathy for him. He was a good man, a good warrior. He was outstanding person. He didn't passively submit, he made his choice, chose his own way in life. I like him. It is all about the point of view. If we saw the same events with the eyes of a man whose family was slaughtered, whose village was burnt down and whose home was destroyed, we'd surely sympathied for him and sincerely wished him to succeed in his mission. By the way if such scene ever existed it could make the movie more powerful and impressive. Yes, he was cruel and ruthless but not senselessly bloodthirsty, not a vile murderer.
zinvor	Posted - May 24 2006 : 02:28:48 AM That's a very interesting question, paazau. In my opinion Magua wuold most likely take her to the Huron villages, may be even raise her as a duaghter, but I don't think he'd ever marry her.Then she'd probably become some young "tall, dark and handsome" warrior's wife. In any case I think she'd be very very miserable. The life of an Indian woman was a hard one. Having spent all her life in England Alice was familiar only with living in comfortable houses, reading books, probably knitting and drinking tea. Life in the lodges, in the woods, cooking food and making clothes with your own hands, all the hard work she would HAVE to do - all that would soon kill her. She'd fall ill, become exhausted, devastated. She wasn't ready for that, she'd hardly make it through. She wasn't small enough, too, to forget her life, her family, her home country and her language. May be this thought somehow crossed her mind a second before she jumped off.
Keira	Posted - May 23 2006 : 03:21:52 AM I think that even if Alice had been adopted and taken good care of her she would have been extremely miserable. Alice didn`t seem like a strong person so being away from her real family(or what was left of it) would have been overwhelming. She would probably have ended up taking her own life rather than living with the Hurons..
raindrops	Posted - May 20 2006 : 9:47:45 PM quote: Originally posted by paazau Exactly Mt Man.. what would have happened if Alice had reached the Huron of the Lakes... would she have been bbq'd, sold, traded, married as Irishgirl suggests... the possibilities are endless... I think what LeyLana posted from Wes' interview explains Magua's thought process during the Alice jumping scene... look over and there’s this baby ... I think of my daughter ... I have a daughter about the same age ... I think of my daughter and I look up and at first it’s “here’s another enemy.” Then I see that it’s only a child, and a female child at that. So I think, “well, maybe I should take it and raise it” ... in terms of what Magua was thinking. Then it looks at me in fright and jumps and it comes back to me that “ oh, this is one of those people. One of those people and I don’t understand how they think anyway. It’s just as well.” And he walks off. Maybe we should explore this direction a little bit more. What we read in Wes' interview suggests that looking at Alice Magua saw a child, not quite a wife candidate. He remembered his own lost daughter of similar age and thought of raising Alice as his own child.. Maybe she could have quite good life as Magua's adopted daughter And some time later she could become some young "tall, dark and handsome" warrior's wife.
LeyLana1462	Posted - April 11 2006 : 07:21:19 AM I'd say I had more empathy for Magua than pity. Doesn't hurt that Wes is a totally gorgeous actor either.......snicker, snicker.............. Sorry Mountain Man, had to get my little comment in there. I tell you one thing tho. I don't think any other Indian Actor could have portrayed Magua as well as Wes. He makes a wonderful 'Angry Indian', quite ironic considering I've seen Russell named the 'Biggest, Angriest Indian'.......heeheehee I just love them all, I think they're beautiful
LeyLana1462	Posted - April 11 2006 : 07:16:37 AM Hey Mountain Man Don't know if I pity him...........tee hee hee........... No, that's not true, I did feel for him. It's funny isn't it, this is only a film and yet we are all so totally wrapped up in it, I Love It. Back to Magua: Can you imagine, now, as a parent, having someone come into your front yard, somebody else in your back yard and they both want to take over your home!!!!!! You're at work and your children, partner, parents, siblings etc are inside the house. Doesn't matter, these people want your home and believe they can look after it 'better' than you!!!!!!! What do they do, get rid of whoever is inside the house first, of course, then fight over the house with each other! How horrible would that be. How would he have felt not being able to stop them. They are such a proud people that the fact that they are surrounded by these strangers with guns etc would be secondary to the fact that they could not save their loved ones. Geeeeeeze........I am getting deep...........sorry, don't mean to get all political on ya. I don't know about you but I reckon I'd be pretty p#*%@!d off too.
Mountain Man	Posted - April 11 2006 : 06:58:54 AM quote: Originally posted by LeyLana1462 It's funny isn't it, here in this century we would think Magua was heartless or cruel but when you think about what happened to his family, friends etc., considering how these new 'white' people reacted to his people is it any wonder he acted the way he did. These new people were at war over a land that wasn't even theirs and people like Magua's children were caught in the middle. That’s right LeyLana 1462. Glad to see I’m not the only one who had some pity for Magua.
LeyLana1462	Posted - April 11 2006 : 04:55:01 AM Hey Paazau, when you get a chance to look at the interviews on the front page, don't miss reading Mike Phillip's interview. He totally cracked me up. Poor Wes had 'fun' making this. Especially when he did the 'murdering of our munchable Mohican'..........lol I've only read about half of the interviews and they are really, really interesting. You get a whole new perspective of things that were intended etc plus a great giggle.
LeyLana1462	Posted - April 11 2006 : 04:45:31 AM It's funny isn't it, here in this century we would think Magua was heartless or cruel but when you think about what happened to his family, friends etc., considering how these new 'white' people reacted to his people is it any wonder he acted the way he did. These new people were at war over a land that wasn't even theirs and people like Magua's children were caught in the middle. Wow...........am I getting deep or what.............lol
paazau	Posted - April 11 2006 : 12:04:36 AM Exactly Mt Man.. what would have happened if Alice had reached the Huron of the Lakes... would she have been bbq'd, sold, traded, married as Irishgirl suggests... the possibilities are endless... I think what LeyLana posted from Wes' interview explains Magua's thought process during the Alice jumping scene... look over and there’s this baby ... I think of my daughter ... I have a daughter about the same age ... I think of my daughter and I look up and at first it’s “here’s another enemy.” Then I see that it’s only a child, and a female child at that. So I think, “well, maybe I should take it and raise it” ... in terms of what Magua was thinking. Then it looks at me in fright and jumps and it comes back to me that “ oh, this is one of those people. One of those people and I don’t understand how they think anyway. It’s just as well.” And he walks off. To me it shows that Magua did have a moment of second thought, but it passed quickly... quote: I think the one thing that was most important to Magua was his recognition as a great war leader. I agree it was important to him, but I'm not so sure it was more important than his revenge on Munro. But I'm happy to accept that you think it's the most important.
paazau	Posted - April 10 2006 : 11:53:43 PM Thanks for that LeyLana. I don't believe I've read the interview with Wes yet. That insight from Magua's POV is interesting. Better pull my finger out and read his interview too if he's going to be the subject of so much discussion!
paazau	Posted - April 10 2006 : 11:51:24 PM I agree Irishgirl. Making her his wife would indeed have been the worst torture imaginable for poor Alice. I don't think she would have coped with that at all, and definitely would have ended up killing herself.
Mountain Man	Posted - April 10 2006 : 10:25:34 PM That’s a good question paazau, and something to think about. One thing to consider is that Magua said he was going to the Huron of the Lakes. So you have to wonder...was he taking Alice there to carry out his BBQ plans? Hard to say. Magua did seem sincere when he was extending his hand out to Alice before she jumped. He put me in mind of the Grinch from “How The Grinch Stole Christmas”. Maybe he was finally releasing his wicked ways, and by looking into Alice’s eyes he started to have a change of heart ...Is anybody buying this? paazau? I didn’t think so. Another thing, maybe Magua figured since he couldn't kill both girls and wipe out Munro's seed forever, he might as well keep Alice alive. I think the one thing that was most important to Magua was his recognition as a great war leader. To this end, his taking Alice to the Huron of the Lakes would just prolong her inevitable death .
LeyLana1462	Posted - April 10 2006 : 9:36:06 PM Hey Paazau I remembered reading something in the interview from Wes where MP asked about those scenes, including where he killed Uncas. I've just copied and pasted it so you can see. There is more about it too but figured it would make my post too long...........tee hee MP: That whole sequence was perhaps the very best in the movie. There’s been a lot of discussion and analysis on our board about that scene in particular. Every expression, every gesture that you made, Jodhi May as well, but especially you, was perfect. Very evocative sequence of expressions, emotions ... you seem to range from cold blooded and detached to surprised and even curious almost, pity almost ... then ending as though you’re just dismissing her. WS: Exactly! You worded that so accurately ... that was great! MP: That’s because you conveyed those emotions so perfectly. It was amazing. Tell us what Magua was thinking ... what were his emotions? WS: Okay, what happened is I kill a guy ... look over and there’s this baby ... I think of my daughter ... I have a daughter about the same age ... I think of my daughter and I look up and at first it’s “here’s another enemy.” Then I see that it’s only a child, and a female child at that. So I think, “well, maybe I should take it and raise it” ... in terms of what Magua was thinking. Then it looks at me in fright and jumps and it comes back to me that “ oh, this is one of those people. One of those people and I don’t understand how they think anyway. It’s just as well.” And he walks off. MP: That was a great scene. Why do you think Alice jumps off that cliff? WS: I think she was terrified. MP: The reason we ask is that there has been a lot of discussion regarding Alice’s motives. Some say it was fear, some that it was defiance. Strong act, weak act. WS: I don’t think she had the time to look down and see that her lover had ... he was supposed to be her lover. In cutting I don’t know if that came through but she was supposed to have been in love with Uncas ... whether it was a jump to join her dead lover, as in a Romeo & Juliet kind of thing, or out and out fright in vain, I think it would have been the latter. It WOULD have been the latter. That’s my understanding of it.
Irishgirl	Posted - April 10 2006 : 09:27:20 AM My first thoughts would be that Magua would have killed her too had she not jumped or been rescued but then I got to thinking some more and believe that he may have kept her as a wife. That would have been the worst torture imaginable for poor Alice. She would have had to bear his children and he could treat her as badly as he wanted to whenever. He would have made her life a living hell and Alice probably would have ended up offing herself anyway. She was used to a cushy life back home and I doubt she would have prevailed very long under such dire circumstances.

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