| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| sidony |
Posted - April 19 2004 : 10:15:23 PM
Am I the only one who can't see what the fuss about Alice and Uncas is all about? I thought their "romance" was too perfunctory and poorly developed to be convincing. I knew why Hawkeye and Cora were attracted to each other, and why they were perfectly matched. I had no idea why Uncas was attracted to Alice. For her looks?- Cora is the ravishing beauty. For her personality?- what personality??? There seemed to be no logical reason why Uncas should care about her enought to risk his life for her. Uncas and Alice fans rave about how romantic they are with little dialogue. Well, perhaps if they'd had a decent conversation, their relationship would be more believable to me.
The scene under the waterfall was odd and contrived.Alice has barely spoken to Uncas, yet he suddenly embraces her and she doesn't object??? That scene made me feel uncomfortable every time I saw it. Alice's body language was totally stiff and awkward. She doesn't look at Uncas, she doesn't really respond to him in any way. She tolerates rather than reciprocates.I got the impression that she was really embarrassed,but, being Alice, lacked the gumption to say to Uncas: "What are you doing? Unhand me sir!" If this was a love scene, it left a lot to be desired.
Some of the things I read about Alice and Uncas just aren't supported by what I saw in the film. Uncas' feelings for her were clear, though incomprehensible to me. Her feelings for him are ambiguous. Yet their interaction has been built up into an undying romance. I guess people like "filling in the gaps" in their relationship. Gaps are fine. Gaping holes are not. There were too many holes in the Uncas/Alice pairing for me to suspend my disbelief. |
| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Lurking Huron3087 |
Posted - April 25 2004 : 1:23:15 PM
Vee--loved your comments..especially 'bout the part when u said from her facial expression,a little part of her died together with Uncas's death..and how she peacefully decided to follow him to death..whatever you said sorta sums up really well all of Alice's last expressions before she jumped...
i think as to this topic...i guess alice/uncas detractors are mostly unconvinced by Alice..suspicious of whether she really noticed Uncas at all..but as to be not convinced by Uncas..well..i thought it was pretty obvious he was so into her..
i'm the type that hates sad endings in love stories..but ironically,alice/uncas is my ultimate fave.
|
| Vee |
Posted - April 24 2004 : 2:36:45 PM
Thanks GG. I thought I was going nutty there. 
~Vee |
| Scott Bubar |
Posted - April 24 2004 : 10:25:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Gadget Girl
It's not you Vee! It's the Obscenity Filter (?if that is what it is called) not allowing that particular succession of letters  . I had the same problem with the same word in a PM the other day.
We knew you didn't misspell it *3* times! 
GG 
Oh, you mean the Anthony filter?
(Just a joke, folks.) |
| Gadget Girl |
Posted - April 24 2004 : 07:50:56 AM
It's not you Vee! It's the Obscenity Filter (?if that is what it is called) not allowing that particular succession of letters . I had the same problem with the same word in a PM the other day.
We knew you didn't misspell it *3* times!
GG |
| Vee |
Posted - April 24 2004 : 03:23:44 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Vee
I do not support that under other circomestance Alice would have committed suicide for Uncas. Time of war and the difficult circomestances she had endured led her to her feelings and actions;
I cannot believe that I managed to misspell circomestance twice in the same way and in the same paragraph. What a mess!
~Vee |
| Vee |
Posted - April 23 2004 : 3:52:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Lurking Huron3087
I'm a huge fan of Alice/Uncas.. and I do admit that Alice's character is a little colourless..but I think Uncas's beutiful expressions more than made up for her lacking..maybe she did not return his affection or feel as deeply for him as he did her...but somehow Uncas poignant love for her seems to over-ride that..and all you see is that one man's deep feelings for the young girl..and what he did.. no matter how she responded..is beautiful in itself..his gentleness..his protectiveness..finally giving his life for her.. and i think those who are fans of the Alice/Uncas story..are mostly over-whelmed and touched by the actions of Uncas more than anything else..and Alice's naivety and fragility sort of magnifies or amplifies his actions..making it more tragic and moving overall..and in whatever way Alice saw Uncas..i think at the scene when she looked down at his body before she jumped..i thought at that moment she realised Uncas meant more to her than just a protector or hero..and she could have jumped anyway from the cliff..but she wanted to land next to him..i think the scene with their bodies laid side by side is a hint from MM that there is a romantic angle to their relationship..
just some thoughts :)
Oh my God, great comment Lurking Huron 3087.
I have been wanting to respond to this thread for some days now, but I haven't had time. :)
I am a true Uncas and Alice fan. I definitely recognize the strong feelings Uncas held for Alice, and I am moved by his actions for her. His feelings were strong yet he was gentle in his way with her. I do believe that Alice to Uncas was the kind of woman he had always wanted to be with... gentle and kind. (And yes, I agree that the model of Alexandria Cameron was the example of woman he desired for himself to meet and fall in love with; but not in any way implying that Uncas had desired Alexandria herself- this I do not agree with).
On the dispute of whether Alice returned his feelings for her, I will say that she certainly did not initiate any romantic interaction with Uncas- she was scared to death for most of the movie, really. Though I am certain that she did become well aware of his feelings for her... If not when she caught him gazing at her during the climb on the water scene, or during the protective grab in the burial ground, then certainly at the embrace behind the waterfalls, and then finally during his sacrifice at the cliffs.
She did look to his face as her protector. She was a young fragile girl who could see that this man had her best interest at heart. Notice how she lunges forward to be with him as soon as she catches sight of him fighting towards her at the cliffs. One could see that she looked to him for her safety and was well aware of his intentions and feelings for her.
She bravely did him honor when she watched (very unlike her character up until that point)as he was tragicaly beaten and finally killed by Magua. With his defeat she was devastated; not just because her hopes of safety were likely diminished, but also for the great loss she felt that the one person who proved he would do anything for her had just been taken away from her. When he died, that look in her face tells me that a part of her died too.
I believe that she chose to end her life for a combination of feelings and emotions. She recognized Uncas's ultimate sacrifice for her. She was devastated by viewing his death with her own eyes. She feared life as a captive and knew that the one person who would go to extremes to save her was now dead. She was very moved by all that had occured and she peacefully made up her mind to end her life right along with him.
This was the first impression that I got when I watche |
| Lurking Huron3087 |
Posted - April 23 2004 : 02:56:49 AM
I'm a huge fan of Alice/Uncas.. and I do admit that Alice's character is a little colourless..but I think Uncas's beutiful expressions more than made up for her lacking..maybe she did not return his affection or feel as deeply for him as he did her...but somehow Uncas poignant love for her seems to over-ride that..and all you see is that one man's deep feelings for the young girl..and what he did.. no matter how she responded..is beautiful in itself..his gentleness..his protectiveness..finally giving his life for her.. and i think those who are fans of the Alice/Uncas story..are mostly over-whelmed and touched by the actions of Uncas more than anything else..and Alice's naivety and fragility sort of magnifies or amplifies his actions..making it more tragic and moving overall..and in whatever way Alice saw Uncas..i think at the scene when she looked down at his body before she jumped..i thought at that moment she realised Uncas meant more to her than just a protector or hero..and she could have jumped anyway from the cliff..but she wanted to land next to him..i think the scene with their bodies laid side by side is a hint from MM that there is a romantic angle to their relationship..
just some thoughts :) |
| rydergrl |
Posted - April 22 2004 : 9:43:27 PM
On this particular topic I'm going to agree with Wilderness Woman; and I, too have posted on earlier threads my thoughts on Uncas/Alice. At first I romanticized the relationship between Uncas and Alice, but on closer observance I came to believe that YES Uncas did have feelings for Alice, but Alice DID NOT return those same feelings. I believe that she looked at Uncas as more of a "protector." |
| daire |
Posted - April 22 2004 : 3:21:42 PM
Nah, I mostly agree with you. While the Uncas/Alice relationship doesn't grate on or annoy me and it did seem somewhat contrived, I like the Cora/Hawkeye one better myself. :) |
| Theresa |
Posted - April 21 2004 : 6:34:14 PM
No need to be embarrassed, Diane..happens to the best of us. |
| Diane B. |
Posted - April 21 2004 : 4:07:31 PM
"Whoopsy-daisy!" That was me, Diane B. aka Rattlesnake Woman that made the post above (thought I was logged in but obviously was not)!
Geez, now I'm embarrassed...guess I was having one of those "mental pauses" that Theresa spoke about!!!  |
| Lurking Huron5040 |
Posted - April 21 2004 : 4:02:48 PM
Wilderness Woman wrote: quote:
As for just why Uncas fell for Alice, I have a theory. I'm sure that you all noticed that Uncas appeared to be especially fond of Alexandra Cameron. She was gentle, kind, attractive, blond and she was un-attainable. Enter Alice: gentle, if not beautiful then at least attractive, blond... and attainable. Therefore, Uncas transfered his feelings to "Alexandra the 2nd." End of theory.
The Mohican Board has grown so large that I cannot remember the original thread(s) where this subject has come up before, but others have also wondered about the relationship between Uncas and Alexandra Cameron. Some have gone so far as to suggest that "they were not strangers" and that perhaps they had something more going on between them at one time. They obviously had an affection for each other but I believe they shared feelings more similar to that of a brother and sister, or perhaps cousins. If I am right and Uncas did "love" Alexandra as a sister or other close member of his extended family, it would be a logical explanation as to why he gently caressed her arm when he found her lying dead on the ground.
This is one theory about the Uncas/Alexandra relationship that I don't recall seeing posted anywhere else on the Board before, but if you think about it, this makes sense. If you remember, when Chingachcook and the others arrived at the Cameron's cabin, Chingachcook took Alexandra's hand in greeting and called her by name, and she nodded as she greeted him with the single word of welcome, "Uncle." Obviously, Chingachcook and his sons were not strangers, but were warmly welcomed into the Cameron's home as "family."
A bit off topic here (sorry!) but if this helps "clear it up any" as far as the relationship between Uncas and Alexandra, or results in other points of view and discussion on the matter, well...remember the "six degrees" rule and all will be well! |
| Wilderness Woman |
Posted - April 20 2004 : 08:07:48 AM
No, Sidony, you are most definitely not the only one. Sigh. If you have read any of my comments in the many threads about the supposed romance between Alice and Uncas... then you know what my thoughts are on this. But here they are again:
1. Uncas, for whatever reason, was attracted to and ostensibly fell in love with Alice. This is evident by his gazing at her, his attempt to rescue her, and his ultimate sacrifice.
2. Alice did not return that love. Period. By the time the under-the-falls scene takes place, Alice has pretty much lost it. She was in a total daze and perhaps in another world much of the time.
3. She did not embrace Uncas. She clung to him... as a child needing comfort would cling to a father or a brother. There is a definite difference.
As for just why Uncas fell for Alice, I have a theory. I'm sure that you all noticed that Uncas appeared to be especially fond of Alexandra Cameron. She was gentle, kind, attractive, blond and she was un-attainable. Enter Alice: gentle, if not beautiful then at least attractive, blond... and attainable. Therefore, Uncas transfered his feelings to "Alexandra the 2nd." End of theory.
No, Sidony... you are not alone. But we will never convince "them"!
(Am I opinionated? Yes I am! Just like everyone else.) |
| Lurking Huron0901 |
Posted - April 20 2004 : 12:36:17 AM
You are probabily not the only one. The Uncas/Alice romance is so subtle that it can easily be considered underdeveloped. But I for one, just like the subtle development between these two. I was aware of the mutual attraction between Uncas and Alice rigth from the first time I watched the movie, without reading the script, the book, or any background information about the movie beforehand. I was totally captivated by the Uncas/Alice relationship.
Their story, however subtle, made a stronger impact on me than the main love story between Cora and Hawkeye, which I think is also very romantic and touching. A lot of people love the Cora/Hawkeye story, while there are also lots of people loving the Uncas/Alice story. It's just a matter of taste.
Why Cora and Hawkeye fell in love with each other? I don't know, and how do you know for sure? Same for Uncas and Alice. People fall in love all the time. Why must there be a reason for
falling in love with someone? And I have to disagree with you about Alice's looks. Personally, I think Jodhi May is very beautiful and has an innocent quality to her that is hard to find in today's actresses. As for her personality, well, I happen to like Alice's fragility and quiet gentleness. If I were a man, I think I would be
more attracted to Alice than to Cora.
I also have to disagree about the Uncas/Alice scene behind the waterfalls. If you watch closely, you will see
that when Uncas pulls Alice back from the waterfall and holds her, Alice CLEARLY holds on to Uncas. THEY EMBRACED EACH OTHER. As a gentle breed, young British girl in 18th century who probabily had never been in such close proximity with a man before, Alice would not have embraced Uncas like that unless she has strong feelings for him. That's what I like about their story. They do not have
in-you-face type love scenes. Everything about them is so subtly yet so beautifully expressed.
|
|
Around The Site:
~ What's New? ~
Pathfinding
|
Mohican Gatherings
|
Mohican Musings
|
LOTM Script
|
History
|
Musical Musings
|
Storefronts on the Frontier
Off the Beaten Trail
|
Links
Of Special Interest:
The Eric Schweig Gallery
|
From the Ramparts
|
The Listening Room
|
Against All Odds
|
The Video Clips Index
DISCLAIMER
Tune, 40, used by permission - composed by Ron Clarke
|
![The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]](images/wwwboard.gif "The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]")
