| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Ithiliana |
Posted - March 30 2004 : 10:22:41 PM
well, i rented LOTM on tape and watched it two years ago. then, just today, i bought and watched the 'expanded' version for the very first time. there is at least one scene missing ('someday you and i are going to have a SERIOUS disagreement')and they don't play 'i will find you' when hawkeye tracks cora and co. to huron land. did these things really get removed? or am i insane? and there were no new scenes (i think) so how is it expanded? |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| GP |
Posted - May 03 2004 : 12:25:25 PM
I watched the Last of the Mohicans in a theater in Ventura, California in 1992, after it came out in general release. I think it was after it had been out for a week or so.
I don't recall hearing or reading anything about different versions of the movie floating around out there at the time. Could it have been that the theater in Ventura accidently got one of the Original Original versions? That would be really, really wierd. But I could almost see something like that happening. Maybe the movie was so popular that they ran out of film reels to send to all the theaters requesting it, and somebody just decided, heck, let's use some of the early version reels and send them to those little hick towns out there where nobody would notice the difference. You, know, kind of like the factory outlet stores that are nearby in Camarillo, where the big name labels send all the not quite ready for prime time factory rejects.
Those links to Ros don't say much about what this person Ros actually saw. Any better links out there?
I don't recall Uncas and Alice ever kissing in the movie that I saw.
Anybody ELSE have a memory of seeing this same movie that I saw in 1992?
Because, you know, in spite of all the nonsensical anachronisms that were in this version, the thing that really made it all worthwhile was that there was this Uncas-Alice love story that really made sense.
I also recall that at the end, when the two of them have died, there was a clear shot of them lying together at the bottom of the cliff. The VHS and Director's Cut versions show a wide view of this same scene, and when I first watched these two versions, I couldn't even tell that their bodies were down there at the bottom. When I looked more closely and saw that their bodies were indeed lying there side by side, I thought, well, maybe I just saw this more clearly on the big screen in the theater.
But now, that it's somewhat confirmed for me that there WAS another Original version, I think that this shot was changed too, to DE-EMPHASIZE the Uncas-Alice love story, by making it harder to see their bodies lying together. Because in the 1992 movie that I saw, that shot of them lying together at the bottom of the cliff was really clear-cut, not exactly a close-up of their bodies, but not with their bodies reduced to tiny specks either.
The other thing that I miss from the movie was the Kiss scene at the fort. The build up to the Kiss was much more romantic, with Hawkeye and Cora sizing each other up more intently before doing the Kiss.
There were more scenes of Hawkeye and Cora together at the fort too, with more of these sort of sexual tension Tracy-Hepburn type arguments between the two of them. Anachronistice also, but you got more of a feeling that the two were developing a relationship before they all of a sudden go off to the Kiss.
YAAAAAAAAAAAGGGG!!! I really want to see this version again!!!!!! |
| Lurking Huron0901 |
Posted - May 03 2004 : 05:28:15 AM
Sorry about my multiple posts. I couldn't figure out a way to edit my previous post. In the page about Director's Expanded Edition http://www.mohicanpress.com/mo06036.html , toward the bottom of the page, there is a quote from Ros about some of what she saw in the original version. |
| Lurking Huron0901 |
Posted - May 03 2004 : 05:05:58 AM
Oh, GP, I found the link to the old posts http://www.mohicanpress.com/wwwboard/messages/5187.html |
| Lurking Huron0901 |
Posted - May 03 2004 : 04:57:55 AM
I think you are the lucky one who had seen the original uncut version that many of us have all wanted to see. I remember reading a thread in the message board archival that the uncut version was shown in NY a month before the nation-wise release. Critics complained that the movie was too long, so Fox ordered to cut 15 to 20 minutes out one month before the release. Because of that, no one has ever seen the original uncut version since then. Ros, one of the posters here saw the same version in 1992 as you did, and he/she mentioned some scenes (especially the Uncas/Alice parts) that match exactly what you just described.
Thank you for confirming yet again that there was indeed a love angle to the Uncas/Alice relationship, which is one of my favorite parts of the movie. |
| GP |
Posted - May 03 2004 : 03:37:21 AM
OK,
I got the VHS tape which was supposedly purchased in 1993. And it is exactly the same as my other VHS tape of this movie which dates to around 2002. And it is also the same version as the Region 4 DVD (Australia) that I purchased from EzyDVD.com. This is the version that most people consider to be the Original Theatrical Version.
But, here's something that I hope you guys on this message board can help address for me.
Seriously, I DO NOT THINK THAT THIS IS THE SAME MOVIE that was shown in the theaters in 1992.
I don't know what version of the movie that you guys get to see at the annual Gatherings. I would not be surprised if it was the exact same version as the VHS tape.
I just have such a strong memory of certain scenes from the movie that I watched in 1992. The whole feel of the movie that I watched in 1992 is completely different from both the Director's Cut DVD, and the VHS tape with the alleged original theatrical version.
The history of my search for the truth about this movie is that after watching the movie in the theater in 1992, I didn't see it again until 2000, when the Director's Cut came out. And I was shocked, really, really shocked, that the movie was SO different from what I remembered it to be.
The things that struck me were not the things that struck other people - the missing Clannad song, Hawkeye's various sarcastic utterances, etc. No, the biggest difference was that the whole movie now felt more like a standard historical movie, rather than a pumped up Miami Vice - style movie, very stylish but also very anachronistic and occasionally unrealistic.
That buff shot of Hawkeye shirtless arguing with somebody at the fort (Munro? Cora?) stuck in my mind because it seemed so out of place, and seemed to be designed mainly to show off Daniel Day Lewis' body. I remember thinking at the time, wow, where did this scruffy mountaineer get the weights to pump up his muscles like that?
That single long tracking camera shot of Hawkeye running right at the camera whacking Hurons right and left was also quite anachronistic, really more like a Hong-Kong kung fu fight scene.
There was another difference that I remember - the Kissing scene at the fort was different - in the current VHS and Director's Cut DVD versions, you see only a very brief glimpse of a few women dancing in the background as the fiddle music plays. In the 1992 movie, I remember there were several couples, women dancing with soldiers and rangers, featured prominently in the foreground. So prominent was the dancing that when the scene started, I remember thinking that this looked like some sort of a dance party had broken out at the fort. I remember thinking at the time that this dancing seemed out of place (in a fort under cannon bombardment, filled with dead and wounded people?) and it felt again like some sort of a Miami Vice moment. The build up to Hawkeye and Cora's Kiss was also different. I think instead of a sideways shot of them looking at each other, there were frontal face shots of the two of them sizing each other up before the Kiss (kind of like the close-up shots that Peter Weir used in movies like Witness and Year of Living Dangerously, where the romantic leads give each other these deeply meaningful and penetrating gazes). The whole scene was a much more romantic one, with a bigger emotional build up, albeit more unrealistic because of the prominence of the dancing couples.
I remember that the 1992 movie also had some extra very quick cuts of Uncas and Alice looking at each other, with the feeling that they were getting interested in each other. These short shots were important in my memory of the movie, because, without them, you now have no clue that the two are developing an attraction for each other.
And so, watching the Director's Cut version, the first thought that came to mind when Uncas grabbed Alice and held her tight underneath the waterfall was, hey, guy, how do yo |
| GP |
Posted - April 25 2004 : 6:26:00 PM
OK, that's wierd. I thought I logged onto this site, and somehow I ended up posting as anonymous guest Lurking Huron. Still trying to figure out how this site works. So those two posts up there from Lurking Huron are mine,
GP |
| Lurking Huron8042 |
Posted - April 25 2004 : 6:21:47 PM
I might also point out that the picture of Daniel-Day Lewis running and looking straight at the camera, which graces the cover of every VHS and DVD copy of LOTM (and the original ads for this movie), I think comes from that single camera tracking shot that I remember seeing in the Original Theatrical Release that I saw in 1992. I remember also at the time thinking that this picture matched that scene in the movie.
In DVD's and VHS tapes of LOTM that I've seen so far, there are a couple of very brief shots where Hawkeye is running towards the camera, but none where he is so intently looking right at the camera.
Of course there's such a thing as false memories, but I have yet to be convinced that this is an example of that here. Gosh, surely an august body of Mohican experts as exists on this message board would have some more information about this issue!
That's why I'm posting here. After being disappointed by the Director's Cut version of this movie, I have been interested in tracking down a copy of this movie that matched my memories of what I had seen in 1992 in the theaters. And I'm more than a bit surprised that my memories don't seem to match what I have read so far in this website about this movie. |
| Lurking Huron8042 |
Posted - April 25 2004 : 6:02:58 PM
I have ordered a used VHS tape from Amazon.com which the owner says was first purchased in 1993. So I hope this answers a question that has been on my mind since the Director's Cut DVD came out in 1999.
I have such a strong memory of those two scenes in the Original Theatrical Version that I watched in 1992, that I am convinced they were really there. The one scene with Hawkeye shirtless (with Chingachgook and Uncas by his side), confronting Gen. Munro, and the second scene in the meadow massacre sequence where he is running right at the camera in a single tracking shot.
Sometimes, movies get changed or re-edited from the Original Theatrical Release the very first time they are released on either VHS or DVD, and no mention is ever made of the change on the VHS tape or DVD.
As I recall, this happened with the cartoon movie "Aladdin", and possibly with "Saving Private Ryan". In Aladdin, there was some wording in one of the songs in the Original Theatrtical Release that people objected to as being racist against Arabs, or something like that, and so when the VHS tape came out (this was before DVD's became the first release of choice), Disney changed some of the words in that song. I remember reading about this in the newspaper. I never actually tried to find the wording change itself in the VHS tape.
I watched "Saving Private Ryan" twice, once with my son, and once with the rest of my family, in the theaters when it first came out. I have this strong memory that in the opening scene, where the old man drops to his knees and starts crying in front of a gravestone, after he stops talking and stands up, there is a fade out, fade in from his face to that of Tom Hanks, riding in the LTV transport about to hit the beach. This gives you a VERY strong impression for the rest of the movie that Tom Hanks is the same character as this old man, years later. And of course, you feel tricked at the end of the movie when the Tom Hanks character gets killed in combat and there is this fade out fade in from the Matt Damon character (Pvt. Ryan) to this old man at the cemetary again. And you realize that this old man is really Pvt. Ryan, not the Tom Hanks character.
I remember reading some stuff at the time from critics who didn't like this bit of trickery from Spielberg.
Lo and behold, when I next watched "Saving Private Ryan", on a rental VHS tape, I think, this first scene at the beginning had changed. Now you have this fade out fade in from the old man to an American flag, and then a cut to the face of Tom Hanks riding in the LTV.
All of this happened without any fanfare, or additional markings on the tape and I never read anything about the movie having been changed.
It may be that this is why the "Last of the Mohicans" VHS tape copyright is marked as 1992 AND 1993, while the Director's Cut copyright is marked as 1999.
I have a very strong suspicion, if it turns out that those scenes that I mentioned are still missing from this early VHS tape of LOTM that I get, that the very first VHS tapes of LOTM eleased may have already been re-edited.
I wonder if anybody else has a memory of these two scenes as I've described them, the very first time they watched LOTM in the theaters, way back in 1992. |
| richfed |
Posted - April 25 2004 : 07:18:56 AM
Interesting ... sounds, though, like it is simply the theatrical version on DVD - not a bad thing! - for, at least as far as I can tell, there is no change in the Massacre Valley scene on the DVD. Never noticed any shots of Hawkeye shirtless or Alice/Uncas missing, either. I believe you are mistaken on this.
Thanks muchly for the info, though!!!  |
| Vee |
Posted - April 25 2004 : 05:58:45 AM
I have the region 2 DVD and I am almost positive that it is the same as the VHS version. (It has been ages since I watched it on video, however).
In my DVD the clannad song is included, looks exchanged between Alice and Uncas are there, Chingachgook's speech at the end is short and sweet, Hawkeye's smart comments to Duncan are also included.
I am pretty happy... except for the fact that I would still like to see the famous love scene that was kept out of all releases, but that is just me. :)
~Vee |
| GP |
Posted - April 25 2004 : 05:15:15 AM
This is a repeat posting of my message on the "Theater Version DVD" thread"
I bought a copy of this DVD online, a Region 4 encoded DVD from EzyDVD.com in Australia. I am not exactly sure what version it is. I do not have a copy of an Original Theatrical Version on VHS or laserdisk, and it has been so long since I've watched this movie in the theater that I am no longer exactly sure what was in the Original Version, and what was taken out from it in the Director's Cut.
My best guess is that this movie is the "new" version that people have been talking about on this board. I believe that it is most likely a synthesis of the Original Version and the Director's Cut.
In this Region 4 DVD:
The Clannad song is back. Chingachgook's speech at the end has been truncated again, so that he stops talking after saying the line "...I, Chingachgook, the Last of the Mohicans". Most of Hawkeye's smart-alecky comments that were deleted from the Director's Cut video are back. Cora's comment to Hawkeye, telling him to escape so that one of them can live on (in the waterfall scene), is back. In these ways, this Australian DVD is like the Original Theatrical version.
Some of the scenes that were added for the Director's Cut, e.g., at the fort, etc., have been deleted again, and so this also appears to be more like the Original Theatrical Version.
However, certain other scenes that I remember from the Original Theatrical version are still just like the Director's Cut. The most memorable scene that I recall is the meadow massacre scene - the Original Theatrical Version had this very striking single camera tracking shot of Hawkeye running right at the camera, whacking Hurons right and left as he raced towards Cora. The Director's Cut replaced this somewhat stylized shot, which was reminiscent of a Hong-Kong/Kung fu fight scene, with a chopped up and slower and more methodical scene with multiple camera cuts of Hawkeye and Chingachgook and Uncas working their way through the meadow.
Several other scenes that I recall from the Original Theatrical Version are also missing still. There were a few brief shots of Uncas and Alice looking at each other that were cut out of the Director's Cut. These are still missing. There was a shot of a shirtless Hawkeye (not the bedroom arrest scene) confronting General Munroe that is still missing. Perhaps my memory fails me and I am just hallucinating the memories of these scenes, but I do seem to remember them. The brief shots of Uncas-Alice together were very important, IMHO, to set up their subtle love story. No new scenes appear to have been added.
I am trying to get hold of a true Original Theatrical version on VHS tape right now. When I have found one, I can do a more thorough comparison.
By the way, you do not need a region-free DVD player to play this DVD. I used DVD Decrypter, a bit of free software that is readily available on the Internet, to strip off all the encoding for the DVD files. Just set the new DVD file up as an IFO file (you can break up the file sizes to anything that you want), and use most of the default settings for this program, and away you go. You can use almost any computer DVD player and player software (I use PowerDVD) to generate and play the cracked VOB file that is the end product of DVD Decrypter The VOB file that is generated will NOT play on a standard, non-computer DVD player designed to hook up to a TV. There are some more sophisticated DVD cracking software that can do this sort of work, but these were either fairly complicated (too hard for me to understand, anyway), or wanted money, so I didn't bother with them.
Here's the URL for the Last of the Mohicans DVD on the EZYDVD site:
http://www.ezydvd.com.au/item.zml/219306
Here's the URL for the DVD Decrypter software:
http://www.dvddecrypter.com/
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| daire |
Posted - April 01 2004 : 12:26:03 PM
Annoys me too. So far, no theater version on DVD. Maybe one day...
I also don't understand why the studio ordered a trimming...I'd gladly sit through another 15 minutes of LOTM. *shakes head, not understanding studio execs* We've got any number of movies that are longer than 2 hours, some only a few years after LOTM...Braveheart, Rob Roy, Pirates of the Caribbean, Titanic, Gettysburg, Gods & Generals..... And some before, Robin Hood Prince of Thieves (1991) for one clocks in at 143 mins.
I'd do cartwheels if we got the original preview "director's cut"...that'd be awesome. Won't hold my breath though.
Argh. *end rant*
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| richfed |
Posted - April 01 2004 : 04:59:54 AM
See: http://www.mohicanpress.com/mo06036.html for a "full" description ... |
| Ithiliana |
Posted - March 31 2004 : 4:24:09 PM
grrrrrrrrrr that annoys me thoroughly.... is there a normal copy on dvd? (normal = like the vhs one) |
| daire |
Posted - March 31 2004 : 12:25:30 PM
You're not insane.
Most of the additions are of scenery/extended views and shots while tracking Cora/Alice and Duncan's Diversion at the Fort. There are other lines taken out of it too ("Nothing better to do on the lake today, Major?", some dialogue in Webb's office, Uncas saying "All dead" at Cameron's cabin, some of the breed apart conversation, and more). I've got both VHS and DVD copies and ain't giving them up for anything!
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