| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Lurking Huron3087 |
Posted - March 20 2004 : 11:54:26 AM
Uncas and Alice almost never spoke to each other...but a love story was still created out of their actions...amazing..a touching one at that.. the three or four lines..depends on the way u look at it..
George Road
Alice-"Stop them! We need them to get out!"
Uncas-"Why do you need the horses?"
Under the falls
Uncas-"Get back!"
tHat's all they said to each other, folks..the rest were just looks and looks and looks...that spoke volumes...bet it's the only love story with three/four lines of dialogue... |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| UncasLover13 |
Posted - July 19 2004 : 9:13:19 PM
yea..she definitely seemed like she wanted to break away and get to Uncas. She looked heartbroken when he got slashed. Those looks that they exchanged spoke a thousand words! |
| LittleOne |
Posted - April 23 2004 : 5:01:35 PM
Wilderness Woman I strongly agree with your post ! :) but when i watched the movie afterward..there is a point when uncas is fighting magua that Alice tries to pull away from the huron that was holding her..perhaps she was actually doing that..to get away and help uncas??? and she seemed rather upset...ahh well perhaps all of us  *romantics*  just kinda interpreted it the way we wanted to see it..all mushy and loving at that lol, I dunno just a little observation..What do you think??
~ Ria  |
| Lurking Huron0927 |
Posted - April 19 2004 : 05:54:20 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Wilderness Woman
Yes. Uncas was in love with, or at least very attracted to, Alice. He was the one who gave all of the tender looks toward her. I cannot recall seeing any tender looks given back to him by Alice. She was so frightened about what was happening to her that she never even noticed Uncas' attentions to her. "Stop them! We need them to get out!" This was not a romantic statement. This was Alice being worried about Alice.
This film is truly a masterpiece *of our time*. So many reflections and tones in every character, scene and confrontation.
What does "love" mean? Remember: This movie plays in a time where "romantic love" was a thing to come. The rise of individualism was object of contemporary philosophy in the 18th century. It ended in the american and french revolution.
So Uncas never would make a difference between love and lust. In other words: when he feels lust he loves, when he has lust he feels love (just as it should be). Remember: "primitive people" don't know prostitution.
And obviously every human being thrown into this fierce and uncivilized world of the america in the 18th century soon growns back to his roots... So Alice shouts out: "Stop them! We need them to get out!" And so Cora wildly embraces Nathaniel in the fort.
And our time gives enough resources and freedom to let be a film like LOTM. From time to time. |
| Lurking Huron0927 |
Posted - April 19 2004 : 05:50:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Wilderness Woman
Yes. Uncas was in love with, or at least very attracted to, Alice. He was the one who gave all of the tender looks toward her. I cannot recall seeing any tender looks given back to him by Alice. She was so frightened about what was happening to her that she never even noticed Uncas' attentions to her. "Stop them! We need them to get out!" This was not a romantic statement. This was Alice being worried about Alice.
This film is truly a masterpiece *of our time*. So many reflections and tones in every character, scene and confrontation.
What does "love" mean? Remember: This movie plays in a time where "romantic love" was a thing to come. The rise of individualism was object of contemporary philosophy in the 18th century. It ended in the american and french revolution.
So Uncas never would make a difference between love and lust. In other words: when he feels lust he loves, when he has lust he feels love (just as it should be). Remember: "primitive people" don't know prostitution.
And obviously every human being thrown into this fierce and uncivilized world of the america in the 18th century soon growns back to his roots... So Alice shouts out: "Stop them! We need them to get out!" And so Cora wildly embraces Nathaniel in the fort.
And our time gives enough resources and freedom to let be a film like LOTM. From time to time. |
| Lurking Huron3087 |
Posted - April 01 2004 : 07:26:53 AM
Okay..talkin' about the same scene..
Magua slashed Uncas's midsection..then the camera shows Alice the first time...i thought she looked worried and horrified that he had gotten injured..then Uncas looks at herand I kinda thought he looked as if he was unsure whether to continue fighting Magua as he was injured and he looked at Alice to decide...she givees him this wide-eyed hopeful look..and Uncas sees that..sees that hopeful expression and he makes up his mind to continue fighting Magua for her..and he's gonna die trying if he has to..
I thought Magua was kinda gving him a choice at the part...he could have just killed Uncas immediately. |
| rydergrl |
Posted - March 31 2004 : 9:13:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Lurking Huron3087
About Alice not returning Uncas's looks..that is a point of debate.. I thought during the scene at the cliffs when she had that exchange with Uncas more than made up for the fact they did not show scenes of her doing anything earlier..
I think she was worried for Uncas when he got slashed initially by Magua..not horrified that she last chance of survival was cut short..
but I see reason when one says she was unaware of him at all..she kinda looked vacant thru out the whole film..
just my opinion!:)
After reading your post and the one by Wilderness Woman" I replayed that scene again and again. There is a "look" exchanged between Alice and Uncas. It occurs after Magua slashes Uncas across the midsection. Uncas looks down at the wound, almost in disbelief, then looks at Alice, knowingly; Alice looks at Uncas; however, I'm still not certain about it being a look of love, more like a look of realization, that Uncas is not going to be able to save her "this time," and yes, that he might be killed. Then the camera goes back to Uncas and he is still looking at Alice, almost as if to say, "I'm willing to give my life for you." But then instead of the camera going back to Alice, it switches to Magua and we know what his look is saying. |
| rydergrl |
Posted - March 31 2004 : 8:54:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Wilderness Woman
quote:
Originally posted by rydergrl
When I say Alice "fell" from the cliff, I don't mean she accidently tripped or missed her footing. It's just that she did not jump. She literally "let" herself fall from the cliff.
OK. I thought that was what you meant, but wanted to make sure.
And you know, just that one little difference... flexing her knees vs. not flexing her knees... how much more poignant and dramatic that scene is with that slow-motion turning of her head and the slow, graceful lean into empty nothingness! You feel her courage and her strength of character so much more clearly than if she had taken a fast flying leap.
Okay WW, we are are in agreement here about the dramatics of the cliff scene where Alice looks away, and then in slow-motion looks almost definately at Magua with those huge eyes, looks away again and then steps away into nothingness. And yes I suppose it would have taken a lot of courage to take that final step. |
| Lurking Huron3087 |
Posted - March 31 2004 : 1:22:54 PM
I agree with the above posting..that understated drop (haha..can i say that?) from the cliff was more moving..more tragic..and showed much of her character |
| Wilderness Woman |
Posted - March 30 2004 : 3:02:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by rydergrl
When I say Alice "fell" from the cliff, I don't mean she accidently tripped or missed her footing. It's just that she did not jump. She literally "let" herself fall from the cliff.
OK. I thought that was what you meant, but wanted to make sure.
And you know, just that one little difference... flexing her knees vs. not flexing her knees... how much more poignant and dramatic that scene is with that slow-motion turning of her head and the slow, graceful lean into empty nothingness! You feel her courage and her strength of character so much more clearly than if she had taken a fast flying leap. |
| Lurking Huron3087 |
Posted - March 30 2004 : 12:37:21 PM
Yeah I know what u mean..it's almost like she just stepped off the cliff..is that better?
About Alice not returning Uncas's looks..that is a point of debate.. I thought during the scene at the cliffs when she had that exchange with Uncas more than made up for the fact they did not show scenes of her doing anything earlier..
I think she was worried for Uncas when he got slashed initially by Magua..not horrified that she last chance of survival was cut short..
but I see reason when one says she was unaware of him at all..she kinda looked vacant thru out the whole film..
but funny enough...i noticed the attraction the very first time I watched the movie!! Maybe cos I was concentrating hard uNCAS.And i never did think alice was not interested in him. She seems like the type who is not used to expressing herself..and those all those looks at the end spoke volumes..
reading the script just confirmed that she was indeed meant to like him
just my opinion!:) |
| rydergrl |
Posted - March 30 2004 : 01:05:48 AM
quote:
Originally posted by marybo73
The statement that Alice fell from the cliff and didn't jump is strange...if you meant that she fell (accidentally) then I will have to disagree. She looked at Magua and knew what she was going to do, she looked determined for the first time in the whole movie. She turned and let herself gracefully "fall" but on purpose. No jumping like on a trampoline but she didn't fall by accident "oops! lost my footing" either.
Just my opinion though.
As stated in the post above, when I said Alice "fell" from the cliff, I did not mean she accidently lost her footing or anything of that nature. I simply meant she did not jump, as in she did not "spring" from the ground or "leap" into the air, but she did allow herself to "fall" from the cliff.
And that is my opinion. |
| rydergrl |
Posted - March 30 2004 : 12:53:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Wilderness Woman
quote:
Originally posted by rydergrl
And as for her falling to her death, (she didn't jump)...
You have me perplexed over this comment. Did you mean that you think Alice "fell" to her death accidentally? Or did you mean that she didn't "jump", in that she didn't flex her knees and propel herself off the cliff as though she were doing the broadjump?
I realize this could be merely semantics but to me, saying that she fell to her death implies that it was accidental, which is definitely not the case here.
Sorry, didn't mean to perplex or confuse anyone. I watched the movie again this weekend, twice, looking for all the angles discussed on this board. When I say Alice "fell" from the cliff, I don't mean she accidently tripped or missed her footing. It's just that she did not jump. She literally "let" herself fall from the cliff. She did not "flex" in any way, or exercise any emotion, she just turned slightly, and off the cliff she went, "falling gracefully" (if you wish) to her death.
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| marybo73 |
Posted - March 29 2004 : 6:58:56 PM
The statement that Alice fell from the cliff and didn't jump is strange...if you meant that she fell (accidentally) then I will have to disagree. She looked at Magua and knew what she was going to do, she looked determined for the first time in the whole movie. She turned and let herself gracefully "fall" but on purpose. No jumping like on a trampoline but she didn't fall by accident "oops! lost my footing" either.
Just my opinion though. |
| marybo73 |
Posted - March 29 2004 : 5:45:37 PM
The above post was me....I've been forgeting to log in before submitting the post. Sorry! |
| Wilderness Woman |
Posted - March 29 2004 : 5:43:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by rydergrl
And as for her falling to her death, (she didn't jump)...
You have me perplexed over this comment. Did you mean that you think Alice "fell" to her death accidentally? Or did you mean that she didn't "jump", in that she didn't flex her knees and propel herself off the cliff as though she were doing the broadjump?
I realize this could be merely semantics but to me, saying that she fell to her death implies that it was accidental, which is definitely not the case here. |
| Lurking Huron1573 |
Posted - March 29 2004 : 5:32:41 PM
 rydergirl...I have to completely agree with everything you posted. Maybe I was hoping that Alice felt the same way so that Uncas had not died in vain. But the way you explained it made more sense...yes...I think she was oblivious to his love. The reason I believed though that she was in love with him before was because of some statements made by eric schweig and russell means commenting on the scenes that were deleted that those two were in love. Maybe Alice was in love with him but it just didn't come through like that because of the short time that was spent on that romance? Did I just confuse anybody? My english is so bad.lol
Thing is, until we see the deleted scenes, we will never know and can just speculate if it was love between the two or just coming from Uncas. Fun to speculate though, ain't it? |
| rydergrl |
Posted - March 29 2004 : 3:59:30 PM
I agree with statements from several posts. First of all, I agree that Uncas had a strong attraction to Alice. I agree that the "looks" he bestowed upon the young Miss Munro spoke volumes. However, I also believe that Miss Munro was ignorant of these looks and feelings. The reason we know the "love story" exists is because we have read the script with the deleted scenes, and because we have now learned to "look" for it and perhaps read more into it than is actually there. First time viewers of this film, and persons who are ignorant of this site would probably not even recogize the "attraction." I didn't.
I have read the script posted at this site and know that scenes were deleted which depicted a love interest between Alice and Uncas. However, in watching the movie, I do not see a love interest on Alices' part. Uncas does gaze upon Alice at different intervals--the waterfall, the burial ground, (which I'd almost missed), behind the waterfall, and finally at the cliff, but not once are these "looks" returned. Even as Uncas fights for her life as well as his own, the only look I see on Alices' face is one of horror as she realizes that her chances of survival are slim and none. I see that she is hoping against hope that Uncas will somehow kill the Huron war chief and save her from her plight. I see no look of recognition on Alice's face, or in her eyes when Uncas looks at her on the cliff--no light bulb goes off in her head. Alice, once free of her capturors grasp, just stands there and stares in horror as Magua slits Uncas' throat, watching her last chance for survival being thrown from a cliff.
Perhaps that is the beauty of the story--That Uncas unbeknownest to Alice, esteemed her greatly. Probably fantasized about a life with her; watched her and watched over her, protected her and in the end, gave his life for her, and she all the time, unaware.
And as for her falling to her death, (she didn't jump), I still feel she was trying to escape a life living among hostiles. Remember, when Alice was escorted from the Huron camp, she did not know what fate had befallen the others and had no idea that others were coming to save her her.
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| Lurking Huron3087 |
Posted - March 29 2004 : 12:52:42 PM
Yeah..I could going on and on 'bout those scenes that weren't acted out or were cut out too!!!.those concerning Alice and Uncas..
I thought the original script was great.. with more looks between them and more dialogue..
fortunately Jodhi and Eric made used of whatever screen-time they had together with fantastic and touching acting to come up with such a masterpiece.it's such an un-Hollywood kind of love story..and I love it...what they lacked in speech they certainly made up in gazes and gazes and more gazes...
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| Lurking Huron1568 |
Posted - March 28 2004 : 5:12:25 PM
Here's the link to read the script that was written by Micheal Mann and Christopher Crowe if you are interested. Even if they don't ever come out with a dvd with all the deleted scenes, at least you can fill in the gaps with some of the parts from the script.
I thought the script was great, too bad they (MM) didn't think the same way.
htt://www.un-official.com/The_Daily_Script/lastmohi.txt
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| Lurking Huron1568 |
Posted - March 28 2004 : 5:06:00 PM
I agree with the last post (before mine I mean). I think they cut too many scenes to show what really was felt between Alice and Uncas, or at least enough that so many people are wondering what really was between the two. I mean, the script even says that they both had exchanged looks and that behind the waterfalls (something that they DIDN'T film) they made love. (To clear this up, in my opinion, when they said "making love" I think they meant it in the clean way of just kissing and holding each other. But I think they both loved each other, she felt that in him she would be safe and he felt that in her, he would be needed. He seemed to be the type to want to protect. Oh! And they also shared looks when they were by the burial grounds and that's when the father "saw it and didn't like it". Lemme stop before I keep going and going.
I've posted before but I've been trying to register for the past 3 days and it's not working.
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| Lurking Huron3087 |
Posted - March 28 2004 : 10:24:26 AM
Hmm..interesting opinion...
I would agree that Alice may not have been deeply in love wtih Uncas..she being young and inexperienced..but on Uncas, I don't think he protected Alice just to make his brother and Cora happy.I don't think it's in his character anyway...From the start , he was interested in her...maybe they too few scenes together to show any development..but I think Uncas was genuinely in love with her..or at least he looked it.Sure, he wanted to protect her..but I think love had some to do with it.As for Alice..she's a complex one..i would say he had feelings that ran a little deeper than that of someone who just wanted protection |
| Marg222 |
Posted - March 28 2004 : 09:07:32 AM
Let me tell you what my opinion is... here it comes...
Maybe there was no love..! Alice is so young and unexpirienced (did I write this well?) and Uncas fellt the need to protect the poor thing. He knew that the love between Cora and Hawkeye is serious and because he wants to make his brother happy, he protects the sis of Cora. And Alice... well, she was just happy that someone protected her... I think that love wasn't the thing for them.
I hope you understand what I'm trying te explain. Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this way... well let me know.
love... marg |
| Lurking Huron7236 |
Posted - March 24 2004 : 10:55:07 AM
It's pretty obvious that Uncas was in love with Alice..but the other way round..is well...as you two argued..hard to tell..
but based sorely on her expressions during that last scene...I would say she cared for him to a certain extent..not sure whether she was deeply in love with him..but definitely she cared..
cared enough to have the courage to look when Uncas was slit at the throat by Magua (note:She is always screaming and hiding in Cora in the earlier scenes)...
the ambiguity arises mainly because of all the cut scenes of them together i think..which makes it hard to figure out Alice's feelings for Uncas...Uncas's feelings for her is pretty clear-cut..maybe because he is older and knows exactly what he is feeling..and we know that too..but Alice?? There is some suspicion on whether she knew her actual feelings for him..due to her young age and fragility...
according to the script..she was attracted to Uncas right from the point he covered her mouth at the burial ground..so at least if that was added..we would know that she did have some form of attraction for Uncas...but with so many scenes cut out..
well..depends on how one inteprets their expressions..
i would go for she cared for him deeply..maybe even loved him a little |
| Wilderness Woman |
Posted - March 24 2004 : 10:11:57 AM
And your rebuttal is also well thought out and backed up! Thank you! In fact, it is so well done that I am going to have to watch the cliff scene again to really study the emotions on Alice's face. (Any excuse to watch the movie again, right?  )
At this point, anyway, I feel that the emotions that show on Alice's face are more reflective of how she perceived Uncas' death would affect her present situation. Yes, I think at this point in the story, she had come to look upon Uncas as her protector... her rescuer, if you will, because he had always been there for her. So I think that when he was stabbed and thrown from the cliff, she did feel a strong sense of loss -- of her friend and potential rescuer. She then realized that her situation was quite hopeless and that was when she decided that death was better for her than what would happen to her at the hands of Magua.
Underestimate Alice's character? On the contrary. As we have discussed at great length on this board, we watch Alice as she changes from an almost giddy "invalid schoolgirl", to a frightened young woman whose situation is out of her control, and finally to a courageous young woman whose emotional and physical sufferings cause her to make the difficult decision to take her own life. She is an excellent study, and one that I enjoy thinking about a great deal to try to figure out just what she was thinking as her "ad-ven-tia" turned so incredibly sour for her. She is one of the great tragic figures of cinema history.
But, was she "in love" with Uncas? No, I really don't believe she was.
Again, thank you xHanx, for presenting a meaty argument!
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| xHanx |
Posted - March 24 2004 : 09:28:09 AM
mmm a well thought out and backed up argument. Where it splits for me however is the point at which Uncas is about to be thrown to his death and Alice's look of horror and hopleness for me is an interpretation of her feelings towards him. She may not regard him with love, and there is a strong argument that she was a highly strung individual unable to cope with the brutal life on the frontier, however, i believe she does regard Uncas as her protector, and if her fragility and naivety prevented love then i believe she saw Uncas as a 'figure' of love, otherwise i maintain that she would not have reacted with the force of pitifulness and loss that she did. There can be no doubt that Uncas was the character most able to feel, and interpret his own feelings, but to say that Alice was not able and aware of Uncas' inclinations or even feel (however clouded with confusion) some of her own, in my opinion is an underestimation of Alice's character. One of many great attributes to the film is the dimentional characters, portraying within the film, life's contradiction and grey areas which i for one , am unable to see in black and white. |
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