| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| MoneminsCastle |
Posted - May 14 2009 : 08:28:11 AM
This is an excellent write about Menomin's Island from the perspective of a native Mohican:
MONEMIN'S ISLAND written by by Steve Comer, Mohican
July 20, 1996
"Peebles Island" is the name of the northernmost of three major and several minor islands that lie at the mouth of the Mohawk River where it meets the so-called Hudson, or as our Mohican ancestors called it, the Mohicanituk (spelling modernized). Known as Haver (Oat) Island by the Dutch, its 20th century name "Peebles" derives from a late 19th century owner. However, a far more appropriate name for it would be "Monemin's Island," after the chief of the Mohican Indian village situated there in early European times.
Monemin's (Moeneminne's, Menomine's) Island was an important place for our ancestors because the shallow waters there made for a relatively easy crossing over the otherwise rather broad Mohawk River. The age-old significance of the site is commemorated in the name of the present-day town located on the northern bank of the river, i.e. Waterford.
The first documented mention of the Indian village there is in a land deed and map of 1630, which speaks of "Monemin's Casteel" or castle, presumably indicating that the village was surrounded by a stockade of upright logs resembling a castle wall. Chief Monemin himself had been killed in a 1626 battle with the Mohawks. It is uncertain what ultimately happened to the population of Monemin's Castle, but they would have soon been dispersed to many places as a part of the general migration of Indian peoples away from the encroachments of the Europeans.
The exact site of the village on Monemin's Island has never been identified. A location near the ford on both sides of the river would make good sense (above flood levels, of course), but it is possible that in late pre-European times, when expanding populations sometimes led to friction between Native groups, a village could have been situated on the better-protected high ground on the north and west sides of the island.
What is certain is that there is abundant evidence that our ancestors lived and worked and died on Monemin's Island and the surrounding area for centuries if not millennia. Many artifacts have been found there, including stone tools, pottery pieces, early European trade goods, fireplace charcoal, and food remains. Of even greater import is the fact that at least 21 Native burials have been unearthed in the areas immediately north and south of the Island in the 20th century, including the three Waterford Ancestors we honored on July 20, 1996.
The Island also played its part in Euro-American history. Because of its strategic location, it served as a conduit for the early beaver trade with the Northern Indians. For the same reason it was an important military road in both the French and Indian Wars of the 18th century and the American Revolution, sometimes acting as an overnight campground. In 1777 the American army of General Gates encamped on the Island with artillery to resist the march of the English General John Burgoyne and his army towards Albany. The remains of the earthen fortifications built at that time are still visible.
After the war the Island was used for agriculture and cattle grazing, but bridges and ferries at other locations largely eliminated its importance as a transportation route. In 1910 a bleaching factory was constructed on the Island to supply the white cloth used for Troy's voluminous shirt and collar production. The building still stands and is used by the State Historic Preservation Office.
Monemin's Island is a special, even sacred, place. Consider that it is surrounded by factories, businesses, roads, parking lots, warehouses, electrical wires, traffic, and up to a million people. And yet in the center of all this pandemonium lies a little place of wilderness full of wildlife, peaceful, calm, relatively undisturbed, and seldom visited. Truly this place in the heart of our ancient homeland is a special one.
Steve Comer
Mohican
Information for this report was drawn from works by Paul Huey, Shirley Dunn, Ted Brasser, and the Bureau of Historic Sites Peebles Island Structures Report.
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| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Monadnock Guide |
Posted - June 06 2009 : 8:35:10 PM
I did too, - but haven't finished another book I'm reading, that's next. |
| MoneminsCastle |
Posted - June 06 2009 : 8:25:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Monadnock Guide
If interested, - I'd recommend buying it through this site using the link to Amazon.
.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/0671679740/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books
I bought the book used on the cheap off of Amazon. It's an absolutely facscinating read. Thanks for the tip. |
| Monadnock Guide |
Posted - May 15 2009 : 4:28:34 PM
If interested, - I'd recommend buying it through this site using the link to Amazon.
.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/0671679740/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books |
| Monadnock Guide |
Posted - May 15 2009 : 2:46:05 PM
UPCOMING EVENTS
.
Summer Solstice 6/21
David Brody Book Signing 6/21
.
What is America's Stonehenge?
.
Built by a Native American Culture or a migrant European population? No one knows for sure. A maze of man-made chambers, walls and ceremonial meeting places, America's Stonehenge is most likely the oldest man-made construction in the United States (over 4000 years old).
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Like Stonehenge in England, America's Stonehenge was built by ancient people well versed in astronomy and stone construction. It has been determined that the site is an accurate astronomical calendar. It was, and still can be, used to determine specific solar and lunar events of the year.
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Various inscriptions have been found throughout the site including Ogham, Phoenician and Iberian Punic Script. Dr. Barry Fell of Harvard University did extensive work on the inscriptions found at the site. They are detailed in his book America B.C.
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Fascinating place, I have to go back - haven't been there for years. There are what are believed to be "guard type foxholes" cut into the granite, (not limestone) - with large granite slab roofs. All the guard post openings are south facing - much warmer in winter. |
| SgtMunro |
Posted - May 15 2009 : 11:51:38 AM
quote:
MoneminsCastle said: I believe that the mounds that you are referring to a centuries older than that of Menomin's Island. The 15th century could be considered contemporary compared to them.
I used the term 'prehistoric' in reference to your own quote, "It is the prehistoric legacy (<1609) that I am most interested in." And therefore I thought that you were including any pre-17th Century period in America as 'prehistoric'.
quote:
MonemeinsCastle noted: You must read The Walam Olum. Although some say that the document is a fake, I believe that the story it tells is not.
I have read my own personal copy (edited by Daniel Brinton) several times, and although I find the contents fascinating, it is no where past the 'hypothosis' stage. The Walam Olum falls into the same catagory as the Bible's story of creation, to wit: it depends on a certain amount of faith/belief, rather than proven fact. The Lenni Lenape have always fancied themselves to be the 'first men' (as their name implies), but science has proven this not to be the case (since Pennsylvania is a long way from East Africa), and the 'first men' belief may only mean as the original speakers of the Algonquin tongue.
quote:
MoneminsCastle then added: There are two language families from the people who cross the land bridge from Asia and settle the Americas - Algonkin and Iroquois. But there are other native language groups that do not fall into either of those categories - that being Cherokee.
I have always been led to believe that even though the Cherokee name means "people of a different speech", that their language is in fact a distant part of the Iroquoian language family.
quote:
MoneminsCastle followed with: I believe that language is derived from the tongue of the Mound Builders, the Alligewi, whom the word Alleghany is derived from.
The Alligewi is one of the mystery people that I am speaking of, since outside of Lenape legend, mysterious burial mounds & sandstone 'forts', and untranslateable petroglyphs along the Ohio River, there is nothing evident of these people. In Heckwelder's Travels Among the Indians of Pennsylvania, New York & Ohio, the good reverend mentions the tale related to him by the Lenape of their long-ago encounter with the Alligewi. The Lenape described the Alligewi as 'giants', where the tallest of the Lenape men could not reach an Alligewi's arm.
Now are these 'Alligewi' of Lenape legend the actual 'mound builders', or are they nothing more than another allegorical reference to the Lenape's struggle during their eastward migration?
quote:
MoneminsCastle finished with: Please read: The Lenape and Their Legends with The Walam Olum
I have already read it; and you should read Heckwelder's Travels, which is available as a current reprint through Wennawoods Publishing (titled 10,000 Miles With John Heckwelder and edited by Paul Wallace). I believe you will find it fascinating, since it contains a wealth of primary-source observations.
YMH&OS,
The Sarge |
| MoneminsCastle |
Posted - May 15 2009 : 10:33:32 AM
quote:
Originally posted by SgtMunro
SW Pennsylvania has quite a few of these pre-historic sites as well, and each one begs the question, "Who were these people, and what happened to them?" The 'mound-builders' civilization pre-dates the so-called 'native peoples' histories, in some cases by thousands of years. Even the Lenape Tribe (natives of modern-day Pennsylvania) could not give clear answers on who these pre-native peoples were, or what became of them. One site, Old Redstone Fort (located near Brownsville, PA), was described by Ohio Country natives of the mid-18th Century, as a place built by the those who 'came before' them (and not their ancestors either). Such sites do make for interesting study, especially in the realm of 'forbidden archeology', since they often raise more questions than answers.
YMH&OS,
The Sarge
I believe that the mounds that you are referring to a centuries older than that of Menomin's Island. The 15th century could be considered contemporary compared to them.
You must read The Walam Olum. Although some say that the document is a fake, I believe that the story it tells is not.
There are two language families from the people who cross the land bridge from Asia and settle the Americas - Algonkin and Iroquois. But there are other native language groups that do not fall into either of those categories - that being Cherokee. I believe that language is derived from the tongue of the Mound Builders, the Alligewi, whom the word Alleghany is derived from.
Please read: The Lenape and Their Legends with The Walam Olum
http://books.google.com/books?id=jaZegQr677wC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Walam+Olum |
| SgtMunro |
Posted - May 15 2009 : 10:13:42 AM
SW Pennsylvania has quite a few of these pre-historic sites as well, and each one begs the question, "Who were these people, and what happened to them?" The 'mound-builders' civilization pre-dates the so-called 'native peoples' histories, in some cases by thousands of years. Even the Lenape Tribe (natives of modern-day Pennsylvania) could not give clear answers on who these pre-native peoples were, or what became of them. One site, Old Redstone Fort (located near Brownsville, PA), was described by Ohio Country natives of the mid-18th Century, as a place built by the those who 'came before' them (and not their ancestors either). Such sites do make for interesting study, especially in the realm of 'forbidden archeology', since they often raise more questions than answers.
YMH&OS,
The Sarge |
| MoneminsCastle |
Posted - May 15 2009 : 09:21:38 AM
Here is a view of the Island. The fortress was located on the northwest side of the island. The mounds of earth were necessary, like all fortifications, so that the defenders of the fort could shoot down on attackers, but also because the island flooded every year. At a time every year the fortress would be completely surrounded by water and an island unto itself.
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.784988,-73.684101&spn=0.003106,0.006888&t=h&z=18 |
| Monadnock Guide |
Posted - May 15 2009 : 09:00:54 AM
It never ceases to amaze me how early folks, in any number of civilizations, moved so much earth or large stones. Often the large/heavy stones were moved mile upon mile. Interesting stuff Castle, ... |
| MoneminsCastle |
Posted - May 15 2009 : 08:36:20 AM
THE FORTRESS OF MENOMIN
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38430610@N06/
This is the huge mound of earth that was piled up for Menomin's Castle. They were contructed by prehistoric Mahicans in the 15th or 16 century. They were later used by the American Revolutionary Army to mount cannon to check the advancement of the British Army on Albany. It was this latter fact of historical significance that saved the island from being plowed under and totally ruined. |
| MoneminsCastle |
Posted - May 14 2009 : 09:10:58 AM
Note: Menomins Island, Haver (or Hauver) Island, and Peebles Island are all the same place. I live directly across from the Island, and directly on the Mahican warpath going west, and directly adjacent to the warpath going north, at the intersection of Hudson and Mohawk Rivers. Just down stream from where the Mohawk Castles once exhisted. The town i live in uncovered a skeleton a few hundred feet from my front door while digging a new sewer line. Despite the legacy of the island, the history of it is largely undocumented. It is the prehistoric legacy (<1609) that I am most interested in. Ironically, the Island is on the National Historic Register for the part it played in the American Revolution.
But before then. . .
In 1609, Captain Henry Hudson of the Sailing Vessel Half Moon sailed up the Mahicanituk (Hudson River or Grande River) and moored at Castle Island near present Albany, he encounted the Mahican Sachem at what is present day Castleton, New York. These events were recorded in the famous diaries of Robert Juet.
The signficance of my subsequent excerpts, in relation to Menomin's Island, are an illustration of the fact that a high-ranking mate of Half-Moon, under the command of Captain Henry Hudson, left the ship in a whale boat and rowed up stream to take soundings. They needed to know if the water was deep enough for the Half Moon to sail up. It was not. They made this discovery about 12-15 miles upriver from where the Half-Moon was moored - at the location of Menomins Island. They men of the Half Moon went onto the island and met the Mahican's there and discovered that they had built a large fortress there.
Subsequently, the Dutch West India Company colonized the Mahican lands there and the rest, as they say, is history.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: The Hoosac Valley By Grace Greylock Niles
http://books.google.com/books?id=c-F4AAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover
-----------Page 18-----------
...Hudson returned the Mahicans' feast on board the ship, Half Moon, and served much aqua-vitae (grape-juice) and Holland tobacco, the customary feast of Christian nations. The King became merry and confided his sorrows and his joys, and he considered aqua-vita the Great Manitou's "spirit waters of paradise," and Hudson's Delft pipe the Calumet (pipe of peace). Robert Juet recorded this ignoble feast in his Journal of the Half Moon as a "dry joke" played upon the savages in order to discover if there was any "treachery" in their natures.
Meanwhile the boatmen of the Half Moon explored the Grande River as far north as Cohoes Falls of the Mohawk, in search of a route to India. They christened the crescent- shaped Haver Island, the site of Castle Mcenemines of Maquon's Mahicansac Heroes, Halve-Maen, in honor of their ship. The names Half Moon and Crescent still cling to that region. Before Hudson set sail for England and Holland he presented the Mahicans and Hoosacs with axes, hoes, and stockings, and promised to return to them after a dozen moons. He accepted their tokens of skins and belts of wampum, interwoven with symbols of the Swastika and Wakon-bird.
-----------Page 61-----------
...On April 8, 1631, Dominie Krol secured the Indian title of the land on the west bank of the Hudson extending from King Aepjen's Bear Island north to Smack's Island opposite Fort Aurania, from sachems Paep-Sikenekomtas, Mancont- tanshal, and Sickousson. On July 27th following, he secured the title of the Sannahagog Tract, extending from Smack's Island north to Cohoes Lane, or the Mahicansacs' war-trail passing through the centre of Maquon's Castle Moenemines on Haver (Oat) Island below Cohoes Falls from sachems Cattomack, Nawanemit, Abantzene, Sagisquwa, and Kana- moack. Sachem Nawanemit also owned the north end of the Sannahagog Tract on the east bank of the Hudson, and six years later, in 1637, Jacob Albertzen Plank, first Sheriff of Rensselaerwyck, and Arendt Van Curler or Corlear, a cousin of Patroon Kiliaen Van Rensselaer, purchased the Hoosacs' Lake District, extending from King Aepjen's Bear Island north to Soquon's Castle Unuwat. This included the "Stone Arabia," or Diamond Rock Tract, eastward twenty-four miles, reaching up the Hoosac Pass of the Ta- conacs into Pownal, Vt. The sachems received for this vast forest region certain quantities of duffels, or coats, axes, knives, and wampum.
-----------Page 61-----------
On April 8, 1631, Dominie Krol secured the Indian title of the land on the west bank of the Hudson extending from King Aepjen's Bear Island north to Smack's Island opposite Fort Aurania, from sachems Paep-Sikenekomtas, Mancont- tanshal, and Sickousson. On July 27th following, he secured the title of the Sannahagog Tract, extending from Smack's Island north to Cohoes Lane, or the Mahicansacs' war-trail passing through the centre of Maquon's Castle Moenemines on Haver (Oat) Island below Cohoes Falls from sachems Cattomack, Nawanemit, Abantzene, Sagisquwa, and Kana- moack. Sachem Nawanemit also owned the north end of the Sannahagog Tract on the east bank of the Hudson, and six years later, in 1637, Jacob Albertzen Plank, first Sheriff of Rensselaerwyck, and Arendt Van Curler or Corlear, a cousin of Patroon Kiliaen Van Rensselaer, purchased the Hoosacs' Lake District, extending from King Aepjen's Bear Island north to Soquon's Castle Unuwat. This included the "Stone Arabia," or Diamond Rock Tract, eastward twenty-four miles, reaching up the Hoosac Pass of the Ta- conacs into Pownal, Vt. The sachems received for this vast forest region certain quantities of duffels, or coats, axes, knives, and wampum.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: History of the Indian tribes of Hudson River
http://books.google.com/books?id=qSwTAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=History+of+the+Indian+tribes+of+Hudson%27s+River
--------Page 85--------
...At the time of the discovery those embraced in the first subdivision had a castle on what is now known as Haver island, called by them Cohoes, on the west side of the river, just below Cohoes falls, under the name of Monemius' castle, and another on the east bank and south of the first, called Unuwat's castle.
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| MoneminsCastle |
Posted - May 14 2009 : 08:30:24 AM
An archeological and documentary history of Peebles Island State Park, Waterford, N.Y. / by Paul R. Huey.
http://nysl.nysed.gov/uhtbin/cgisirsi/AaYqHfwdKp/NYSL/242560031/524/13031
NOTE: Van Schaick, and Haver (Peebles) Islands are feet from each other and prior to any bridge being built, one could walk from one island to another across water fords from a sprout of the Mohawk River. Although physically, they are two islands, geographically speaking, they are one and the same location (although oddly enough the line between counties runs between them).
Page 4
I. Setting the Prehistoric Occupation
The islands in the Hudson River above and below Albany consist of alluvial flood plain islands as well as protruding outcrops of bedrock. Large alluvial flood plain islands such as Papscanee Islands and Schodack (Castleton) Island were quickly recognized by the Dutch who came to this area early in the 17th century as valuable resources for agriculture; these lands had previously been farmed by the Mahican Indians who owned them. Contrasting with those islands were the islands consisting of high, protruding outcrops of bedrock which were smaller but which were strategic places not only for settlement by the Indians but also for settlement and fortifications by Europeans; these islands included Beeren Island, Smacks Island, and the Hogebert south of Albany, while north of Albany the four outlets, or spruyts, of the Mohawk River formed Green, Van Schaick, and Haver (Peebles) Islands.
Pages 8 and 9
On Peebles Island there is abundant evidence scatterd on the ground surface of prehistoric Indian occupation. These artifacts, including flint chips, worked fint blands, scapers, projectile points, and hammer stones, each provide important archeological clues about the Indians who once lived on the island before the arrival of Europeans. Arthur C. Parker in 1922 reported the discoverery of "chipped red slate" projectile points at the southeast end of Peebles Island. . . On neighboring Van Schaick Island, the burial of an Indian woman and her child was uncovered on the golf course, and in 1926 Homer Floger of Lansingburgh, a carpenter employed at the Matton Shipyard, also discovered an Indian burial and artifacts near the Shipyard where he worked. They were found north of the shipyard, not far from Peebles Island.
More discoveries followed in 1933, when Folger discovered another well-preserved Indian burial, and in April 1938 he found two burials that had been exposed by the high water or the river at the north tip of Van Schaick Islands. The bodies had been buried in a fetal position. he claimed that a projectile point was embedded in the skull of one skeleton... One of those skullls found by Folger in the Spring of 1938 has been reburied in a ceremony conducted by the Stockbridge Munsee Indians on July 24, 1994 at the Grafton Peace Pagoda in Rensselaer County...
Also north of Peebles Island, but just across the Mohawk River channel, at least three burials were uncovered in Waterford in 1995 by archeologist working in advance of sewer line contruction. These, too were in a fetal position. . .
On Page 20 - Figure 1 - Detail from the Map of Rensselaerswyck drawn about 1630 Showing "Menemin's Casteel" located on present Peebles Island (Van Lawer 1908) |
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