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COLONIAL TIMES

The Muster

Continental Tactics in a Frontier World?

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[quote][i]Originally posted by SgtMunro[/i]
[br]The "French and Indian War" brings to mind the fearless, bearded longhunter type sniping at the brightly dressed regular soldier in a dense wooded, almost alien enviroment.  Was this really the case? The same people who believe that, also believe the American Revolution was won by the same buckskin clad marksmen.  Was the "La Petit Guere" of the Canadian Miliece, Longhunter or Ranger mearly a sideshow to the main event?  People may point to Braddock's Defeat, but the pivotal battles for the British (Louisburg and Quebec come to mind) were won using those "foolish" linerar tactics of the professional soldier of Europe.  Even the defeat of Major Grant's force in front of Ft. Duquesne, was largely brought about by devestating volley fire from the French Colonial Marines.  The British rout at Ticonderoga, once again precipitated by the disciplined volleys of Montcalm's French Regulars.  For too many years in the historian/reenactment community this myth has been allowed to continue unchallenged, I say lets bring it to a serious, yet somewhat civil debate.

Your Humble Author,
Sgt. Duncan Munro
42nd RHR

[/quote]

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SgtMunro	Posted - October 07 2002 : 12:45:04 AM The "French and Indian War" brings to mind the fearless, bearded longhunter type sniping at the brightly dressed regular soldier in a dense wooded, almost alien enviroment. Was this really the case? The same people who believe that, also believe the American Revolution was won by the same buckskin clad marksmen. Was the "La Petit Guere" of the Canadian Miliece, Longhunter or Ranger mearly a sideshow to the main event? People may point to Braddock's Defeat, but the pivotal battles for the British (Louisburg and Quebec come to mind) were won using those "foolish" linerar tactics of the professional soldier of Europe. Even the defeat of Major Grant's force in front of Ft. Duquesne, was largely brought about by devestating volley fire from the French Colonial Marines. The British rout at Ticonderoga, once again precipitated by the disciplined volleys of Montcalm's French Regulars. For too many years in the historian/reenactment community this myth has been allowed to continue unchallenged, I say lets bring it to a serious, yet somewhat civil debate. Your Humble Author, Sgt. Duncan Munro 42nd RHR
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
SgtMunro	Posted - November 12 2002 : 5:53:20 PM Thanks Ranger, I am now on the hunt for more information concerning the "Land Tortoise". As soon as I dig some up, I'll pass it on to you. Your Humble Servant,
CT•Ranger	Posted - November 06 2002 : 10:14:58 AM I haven't found much about them either. As far as I can tell, they were brought up to cover the British vanguard amphibious landing. But the landing was unapposed by the French, leaving the floating batteries unnecessary, it only took about 2 hours to disembark. The "Land Tortoise" appears to have been deliberately sunk before it was finished. CT•Ranger "Each day as we become more mechanized, we become...less aware, always more under the influence of powers beyond our comprehension." -Eric Sloane
SgtMunro	Posted - November 05 2002 : 10:30:32 PM Hey Ranger, of all of the accounts of the action at Carillon, I can't find any that mention the involvement of the floating batteries. They do mention bringing them along, but I can't recall the use of them in a support role, can you help me? Sgt. Duncan Munro Capt. Graham's Coy 1/42nd Royal Highlanders "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
CT•Ranger	Posted - November 05 2002 : 8:55:00 PM Amphibious operations played a very important role in the Lake George/Champlain Corridor as well. The British often sent patrols of rangers and/or provincials around Lake George in whaleboats. For Abercromby's 1758 assault on Carillon, the British amassed a fleet of 135 whaleboats and 900 bateaux plus a couple sloops and a radeau (floating battery). When they retreated back to the south end of Lake George, they sank most of them to prevent the French from capturing them. Many of these they planned to raise and use again the following year. Today, many of these have been found including a radeau the "Land Tortoise". Scuba divers can visit the wrecks of 7 bateaux just off the shore in 25-40 feet of water. CT•Ranger "Each day as we become more mechanized, we become...less aware, always more under the influence of powers beyond our comprehension." -Eric Sloane
SgtMunro	Posted - November 01 2002 : 01:50:37 AM Overall, given the condition of the interior of North America, the importance of small scale naval and riverine operations were more crutial here than in Europe. The reason is obvious, in Europe existed an infrastructure of roads, trails, paths, etc. In North America, topographical and local flora conditions made this a difficult barrier to negotiate. However, the extensive inland waterways gave a simple alternative, one which the French exploited early on. Your Humble Servant, Sgt. Duncan Munro Capt. Graham's Coy 1/42nd Royal Highlanders "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
Edmund McKinnon	Posted - November 01 2002 : 12:39:20 AM If you recall when Trent's Co.was building Ft.Prince George,the French assembled a powerful armada of Batteaux & canoe to sail down the Allegheny River to expel the Virginians from the point.EM Capt.John Graham Cmdr.42nd Highlanders
SgtMunro	Posted - October 31 2002 : 09:34:34 AM Good read, Ranger, I believe I had seen a similar entry in the Hibbert book, "Wolfe at Quebec". Your Humble Servant, Sgt. Duncan Munro Capt. Graham's Coy 1/42nd Royal Highlanders "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
CT•Ranger	Posted - October 30 2002 : 10:32:40 PM Here's an example of amphibious operations during the siege of Quebec. The text is from David Perry's memoir, he was a ranger in Hazen's company during this campaign. "We now had hard fighting enough, as we were scouting over the country nearly all the time, and were shot upon, more or less, nearly every day, and very often had some killed or wounded. We used frequently to get on board large flat-bottomed boats, that would hold eighty men each; to do which we had to wade in the water up to the middle; and, after sitting in our wet clothes all night, jump into the water again, wade ashore, go back into the woods, and scatter into small parties, in order to catch the inhabitants, as they returned from the, woods to look after their domestic affairs; and when they had got in among us, one party would rise in their front, and another in their rear, and thus we surrounded and captured a great many of them. The country was settled on that side of the river, to the distance of about thirty miles below our encampment; and we took the greater part of their cattle and sheep, and drove them into camp. We went down there a number of times, and found that they had a considerable force stationed back in the woods. One night in particular, I well remember, our company and a company of regulars, took a trip down there in boats, and landed about day-break. As soon as it was light, Capt. Hazen told his men to stroll back, a few at a time, undiscovered, into the woods. As soon as we had done this, the regulars marched, by fife and drum, in a body round a point of the woods, in order to draw the enemy there; and we kept still, until they got between us and the regulars, when we rose and fired on them, and put them to flight immediately. Our orders were, to "kill all, and give no quarters." The enemy had a Priest with them, who was wounded in the thigh, and begged earnestly for quarters: but the Captain told the men to kill him. Upon which, one of them deliberately blew his brains out.--We effectually broke up the camp in this quarter, and returned safe to camp. At another time, we went down the river about forty miles, in the night, and landed in the morning on the opposite side to the place last mentioned, and secreted ourselves in small parties, in the woods, beside the road. I was with the Lieutenant's party. We had a man by the name of Frazier in our party, who enlisted under Capt. Peck, in Boston, and he was a pretty unruly fellow. There came along three armed Frenchmen near where we lay concealed, and Frazier saw them, and hallooed to them "boon-quarter;" whereupon one of them levelled his piece and shot him through the head, and killed him instantly. The Captain hearing the report, came and inquired how it happened. We told him we could not keep Frazier still; "well," said he, "his blood be upon his own head." We now expected to have some fighting. We left our blankets upon the dead man, and took the road the Frenchmen came in, and after marching about half a mile, we came into an open field, with a large number of cattle in it: and on the opposite side of the field, just in the edge of the woods, were a great many little huts, full of women and children, with their hasty-pudding for breakfast, of which I partook with them; but their little children scampered into the brush, and could not be got sight of again, any more than so many [young] partridges. We did not, however, wish to hurt them. There were three barns in the lot, filled with household goods: we took as many as we could of these, and drove the cattle back the way we came, to where the dead man and blankets were left, which we took up, and were proceeding with our booty to the river, when the enemy fired on us, and killed Lieut. Meachum, of Capt. Dank's company, and wounded one other. In the mean time, the cattle we had taken all ran back; but we drove off the enemy, and got our goods, &c., aboard the boats, and returned to camp."
SgtMunro	Posted - October 30 2002 : 6:55:12 PM Absolutely right, Two Kettles. I doubt that the Fort Detroit Garrison would have been able to hold out as long as they did without the waterborne line of communication with Ft. Niagara. The 'riverine' style close support, also afforded Ft. Detroit a certain level of safety. Your Humble Servant, Sgt. Duncan Munro Capt. Graham's Coy 1/42nd Royal Highlanders "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
Two Kettles	Posted - October 30 2002 : 1:46:31 PM "Lets kick that idea out into the open and see who wants to give some insight into the technological and tactical sides of the amphibious operations during these campaigns." Something else to add to the mix: I've read somewhere (and to save me I can't remember where it was) about how seapower even helped defeat Pontiac. Although the Highlanders and 60th lights rightly deserve fame for their heroism at Bushy Run and the relief of Ft. Pitt, it was the naval vessels on the lakes that kept Detroit supplied and reinforced. And even at the debacle at Bloody Run, it was whaleboats from the fort, with swivels mounted in the front, that kept Pontiac's warriors at bay so Rogers and his Rangers could evacuate Campeau's farm after their rear-guard action. Two Kettles
SgtMunro	Posted - October 30 2002 : 02:35:06 AM Aye Captian, I agree. Mr. Brumwell has suceeded in writting the best work on the British Army of our period since "Fit For Service". Sgt. Duncan Munro Capt. Graham's Coy 1/42nd Royal Highlanders "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
Edmund McKinnon	Posted - October 30 2002 : 02:11:30 AM Mr.Brumwell is probably THE leading authority on the British soldier in N.America during F&I/RevWar.I look forward to meeting him on Nov.2,2002 at the F&I Seminar at Jumonville.He will also appear with me as a talking head in"George Washington's First War:The Battle for Ft.Duquesne"(www.paladincom.com).In addition, Dr.Fred Anderson & Bruce Egli will be in this one as well.Last but not least will be Dr.Paul Kopperman(Braddock on the Monongahela).I feel honored to be in the presence of these great scholars who will give different and various perspectives of irregular warfare in Colonial America during F&I. Capt.John Graham Cmdr.42nd Highlanders
SgtMunro	Posted - October 29 2002 : 11:36:32 PM Excellent point, Ranger, I almost forgot about the amphibious warfare dimension to some of the key campaigns (Ticonderoga,Louisburg & Quebec). Lets kick that idea out into the open and see who wants to give some insight into the technological and tactical sides of the amphibious operations during these campaigns. Another angle which is closely tied to the AmphibOps, is logistics. Your Humble Servant, Sgt. Duncan Munro Capt. Graham's Coy 1/42nd Royal Highlanders "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
CT•Ranger	Posted - October 29 2002 : 8:52:28 PM In Knox's Journal he writes that the British Army in America was "... instructed in the regular and irregular...method of fighting...in fine, they were trained up in every particular that prudence, with experience, could dictate, to render the troops expert in an open or covered country." In his book "Redcoat: The British Soldier and War in the Americas, 1755-1763" Stephen Brumwell writes: "Between 1755 and 1763, the officers and men of the 'American Army' soldiered under a wide variety of conditions: they encountered French regulars arrayed on open ground or ensconced behind field-works; skirmished through woods and scrub with Indians and militia; sapped forward methodically with pick and shovel against permanent fortifications; and developed considerable expertise in the amphibious operations that form such a striking feature of Britian's war effort in the Americas." This author argues that it was the combination of the Old World with the New, which characterized the F&I War, and not simply 'a European conflict in a New World setting.' He writes that "the brief bouts of 'regular' warfare were invariably waged against a broader canvas of low-intensity 'irregular' conflict." This book is a good read for those of you interested in or reenacting His Majesty's troops, and there's even a chapter on "The Highland battalions in the Americas" for you Scots. -CT•Ranger "Now we are glad to learn the skulking way of war.” - John Eliot (during King Philip's War 1675/6)
Edmund McKinnon	Posted - October 27 2002 : 8:32:24 PM I agree whole heartedly with you Two Kettles.After Gage's first volleys where the French commander Beajeau was killed,the French forces were in disarray.They could have been routed then and there.Gage hesitated however(for whatever his reasons,perhaps he was apprehensive about the strength of the enemy that lay unseen up ahead)and Dumas assumed command and saved the day for the French.The twilight then began to set upon the mediocre military career of an officer who's last efforts were to try and halt the colonists at Lexington & Concord as well as Breed's Hill. Capt.John Graham Cmdr.42nd Highlanders
SgtMunro	Posted - October 27 2002 : 7:40:09 PM Two Kettles, I am a student of Braddock's Defeat (being that I only live 15 minutes from the battlefield haelped pique my interest) and I couldn't agree more with you. I have often wondered 'what if?', over several aspects of that engagement. I salute your insight, Bravo!!! Your Humble Servant, Sgt. Duncan Munro Capt. Graham's Coy 1/42nd Royal Highlanders "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
Two Kettles	Posted - October 25 2002 : 4:26:13 PM "Thomas Gage failed to take the hill on the right and did not follow up with a bayonet charge after the first three volleys..." Huzzah, EM. I have long felt that the real "loser" at the Monongahela was that military disaster looking for a place to happen, Gage. I can't help but wonder what would have happened if those first few volleys had been followed by a bayonet charge straight down the road, with flankers sent out to clear the edges and that bloody hill taken. Which is what Gage should have done. It's ironic that the battle is usually portrayed as a failure of classic British military tactics when, in fact, it was the failure to properly follow the tactics that lost the battle. Then Gage went on to replace Lord Howe at Ti, and eventually to Boston and Bunker Hill...egads. Two Kettles
SgtMunro	Posted - October 23 2002 : 03:44:55 AM Aye Captain, we can vent properly at 'The Barracks' so that we do not offend those who are governed by their emotions (we wouldn't want logic and reason get in the way of a trendy thought, now do we?). Sgt. Duncan Munro Capt. Graham's Coy 1/42nd Royal Highlanders "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
Edmund McKinnon	Posted - October 23 2002 : 02:39:40 AM I think that would be best.Hurt feelings,ouch! Capt.John Graham Cmdr.42nd Highlanders
SgtMunro	Posted - October 22 2002 : 02:04:49 AM Awwww, Captain, we have to be nice and not hurt their feelings, otherwise we might get spanked. Or, we can just hang out down here at the military side of the house... Sgt. Duncan Munro Capt. Graham's Coy 1/42nd Royal Highlanders "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
Edmund McKinnon	Posted - October 21 2002 : 6:34:52 PM Would some of the other posters in Mohicanland fall into this category? Capt.John Graham Cmdr.42nd Highlanders
SgtMunro	Posted - October 21 2002 : 12:10:07 AM Right again, Captain, unfortunately most people fail to realize that the Indian Nations of the East were REAL nations, and not just nomadic bands. Sgt. Duncan Munro Capt. Graham's Coy 1/42nd Royal Highlanders "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
Edmund McKinnon	Posted - October 20 2002 : 5:45:33 PM Another misconception,is that all of the great Native American victories occurred in the West.Nothing could be further from the truth.One of the greatest was Braddock's Defeat in 1755(900+ casualties).Another was Grant's Hill in 1758(250+ casualties)where there were more soldiers killed than with Custer at The Little Big Horn in 1876.EM Edmond N.Highlander Jr.
SgtMunro	Posted - October 18 2002 : 9:20:59 PM I have all 5 volumes of "French and Indian War Notices from Colonial Newspapers" as well as the additional volume that covers Pontiac's War. It is going to be my winter reading... Sgt. Duncan Munro Capt. Graham's Coy 1/42nd Royal Highlanders "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
Edmund McKinnon	Posted - October 18 2002 : 8:07:44 PM Oh,the media.Things have changed since Ben Franklin was a printer.I find that the extracts of 18th century newspapers to be more believeable than the rubbish that is printed today.At least one can get an accurate account of the battles that took place(or at least more so than today).EM Edmond N.Highlander Jr.

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