| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| wayagili |
Posted - March 24 2005 : 09:37:03 AM
Hello,
I was wondering if anyone has ever come across any mention of using canvas to make Native style (side-seam) leggings.
I know wool and obviously leather were the most common, but would it be completely inaccurate to make a pair from heavyweight canvas?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Best,
Steve |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Seth Montour |
Posted - October 10 2005 : 5:10:35 PM
Green wool is an acceptable color, Bouquet papers talk about issuing green leggings tied with a red garter to IIRC the 60th RAR. I know of 2 pair of native leggings in green, one pair of late 18th to early 19th century leggings with a stockbridge history, the other pair are from a european collection and on display in Pittsburgh now. But the best bet is to go with blue for miitary purposes.
I like canvas leggings, but not of native style, if you really want canvas then make them gaiters, not indian leggings. |
| Okwaho |
Posted - July 27 2005 : 11:58:22 PM
To the original author of this thread: I don't know what tribe or time frame to which you are referring or even whether you are Native so I will talk generic Eastern woodland Indian.First of all before about 1790 leggings were sideseam cut on a taper with flaps of 2-4 in. wide.They came up to about one hand above the knee and were almost always made of either braintanned buckskin or wool with scarlet red,navy {very dark} blue, and sometimes black being the predominant colors. Fringing of the flaps with a short stubby fringe is acceptable and there is a pair of Naskapi pre 1770 leggings in Bo'jou Neejee with a slightly longer fringe which was probably quill wrapped.I have never seen any canvas leggings illustrated anywhere and very seriously doubt that canvas was anything more than an exception to the general rule.Although buckskin was still widely used for leggings and other clothing,wool was by far the fabric of choice.It could be worn wet and still keep you warm and it was much easier to dry.It was also far easier to decorate with ribbons,beads,or quillwork.I can't think of any good reason other than perhaps easy availability to cause Indians to make clothing from canvas and that reason would diminish as one traveled westward from the coast. One writer mentioned green leggings for a possible Ranger impression. NO ONE really knows what Roger's rangers wore in the way of clothing.There is a series of books called Sketchbook 56 which purport to show Ranger uniforms but I don't know any serious reenactors who give much credence to that series.We do know that Rogers purchased some green wool but that's ALL we know.I reenact 17th and 18th century Mohawk from Caughnawaga in Quebec and if you will post in your tribe{if Indian} and time frame, I'll be happy to offer some pointers as to what clothing you should be wearing and what weapon you should be carrying.
Tom Patton
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| maiinkan |
Posted - July 27 2005 : 12:27:19 PM
I have done only a few re-enactments in N.Indiana and S. Michigan and used black canvas center seam leggings I made myself. The local natives would only use leather when traveling, warpath etc. Wool was not for me. Canvas was available, practical, durable and cooler. I have had no-one object as yet. When I made my leather leggings I got a real education as to how hard those indian women worked after the man dropped a deer for them to use. I think if they could get cloth or canvas they would certainly have jumped at the chance. Maiinkan |
| wayagili |
Posted - March 31 2005 : 09:53:28 AM
Yeah, I definately plan on getting one at some point.
Maybe now that you posted this I can convince the wife that it's a necessity based on the advice of others in the field! 
Seriously though, it will be a future purchase.
Best,
Steve |
| Fitz Williams |
Posted - March 26 2005 : 10:35:13 PM
You need a Bess. It will fit just about any persona other than French. And after all, a rifle is one thing, and a smoothbore is another, so it's only right that you have both. |
| wayagili |
Posted - March 26 2005 : 09:53:14 AM
Well, actually I had been thinking green because I'm kicking around the idea of eventually putting together a Rogers' Rangers kit. I know that sources mention buckskin, blue and green, and was leaning towards green to use with both. But after looking at a few pics and paintings (one of Magua that I found on the forum) I'm thinking black with red binding and doing some beadwork in white. Then eventually, I'll pick up a pair of smoked buckskin and I should be all set.
Now if I could convince the wife to let me get a Brown Bess after just having bought a rifle...... |
| Fitz Williams |
Posted - March 24 2005 : 11:23:45 PM
Wool leggins or mitasses came in red, blue and black. At the 2002 Gathering, there was a picture of Magua done by an artist based on a scene in LOTM. The artist had correctly changed the leggings from leather to wool. |
| wayagili |
Posted - March 24 2005 : 7:21:48 PM
Great!
Ft. Frederick is only about an hour from me, and I know the event up there is coming up next month. I plan on attending, perhaps Friday and Saturday, so I think I'll touch base with the folks you suggest to see if they're going to be up there, and maybe get something from them then. I'm leaning towards a dark green (I have a very nice blue linen shirt my wife gave me) and eventually getting a pair of buckskin. I have little experience working with leather (I could make the leggings easily enough, I guess, but don't know the ins and outs of leatherwork other than the center-seam mocs I made) so I think I would like to get some made for me which I know won't be cheap! (Ah, the joys of public education - overworked and underpaid!)
Thanks again for the suggestions!
Best,
Steve |
| Fitz Williams |
Posted - March 24 2005 : 6:31:28 PM
I buy all my fabric from 96 District Storehouse in Abbeville, SC. They don't have a web site, but do have email. It is storehouse96@wctel.net Or you can call (864) 366-9600 and ask for Peggy or Dennis. They even handle stroud and linsey woolsey when they can get it. Plus they know what is appropriate. They do a lot of events like Manskers, Ticonderoga, Martin's Station, Niagara, Fort Frederick, etc. |
| wayagili |
Posted - March 24 2005 : 1:18:44 PM
Thanks Fitz!
I thought of using a heavier, rough-weace linen. The wool leggings that I have now are made from an old Army blanket, which had seen quite a bit before I cut it up so the quality of the wool is probably not the best. It tends to be a bit scratchy, but a pair made out of higher quality wool would be better, I guess. What type of wool do you consider "proper"? I thought about just getting another, higher quality blanket.
Best,
Steve |
| Fitz Williams |
Posted - March 24 2005 : 11:41:11 AM
There have been discussions of using hemp or linen, but there is not much in the way of documentation to warrent that. Heavy hemp would be a good choice. The proper wool, even in summer heat, is not uncomfortable to wear. |
| wayagili |
Posted - March 24 2005 : 10:51:42 AM
Monadnock Guide,
I was thinking of something to use with a period outfit, and was just wondering what the many options out there were. I know what you mean about wet canvas (I have a canvas frock) but wet leather is no real picnic either. Belue mentions in "The Hunters of Kentucky" that wet buckskin basically became a "soggy chamois" and could be quite uncomfortable. The upside is the canvas dires pretty quick. Of course, he was referring to a buckskin frock, but I'm sure bucksking leggings could be an issue to. I've worn wool leggings, and they're okay, but in the summer they can get a bit itchy, so I was kind of looking for a hot-weather alternative. I haven't tried buckskin leggings yet (I'm new to this and the wife put me on a budget!), so I don't have any experience with them. I think I'll just bite the bullet and get some leather.
Thanks for the input!
Best,
steve |
| wayagili |
Posted - March 24 2005 : 10:36:05 AM
Sgt. Munroe,
I'm inclinded to agree that Natives as well as some civilians (longhunters/scouts) would have used whatever was handy at the time, be it leather or wool or whatever, as long as it was a practical material for the needed item. I was just hoping someone might have come across some actual documentation. I have a longhunter kit that I've been putting together, and had some canvas lying around, so I figured why not?
But maybe I should just stick to wool to be on the safe side of historical accuracy.
Much thanks for the info!
Best,
Steve |
| Monadnock Guide |
Posted - March 24 2005 : 10:31:38 AM
Hello Steve, ...
.
Why would you want to have a pair of heavy canvas leggins? Leather my be fine in reenacting, - but not really needed outside of that. I do a great deal of hiking, and snowshoeing, and the more "mordern stuff" is a big improvement. I.E. - Nylon, lightweight, don't get wet & hold the cold, inexpensive, and easy to get on on and off. They come in a variety of colors also. Heavy canvas on the other hand, is eventually likely to get wet, and hold any cold, assuming you intend to use them in all conditions. Wet heavy canvas may not be such a charm in the long run. Having said that, - I'm sure they can be made, and if you do end up with a pair, hope you like 'em.
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| SgtMunro |
Posted - March 24 2005 : 10:05:54 AM
Hi Steve,
I am not a Native Reenactor, but I do know a couple of them and I am somewhat a student of the Eastern Woodland Nations. I too do not recall any mention of canvas leggings, used by any Eastern Indian, but I do believe that there may have been isolated cases where they might have. For instance, just about everyone here on the board knows that Native Americans, the Eastern Nations in particular, were very efficient in the use of materials. Even though, as you already noted, tanned leather and wool were most common, I would believe that if they came across a bolt of canvas (Through either trade or raid), that they would put it to good use in the manufacture of various items of clothing. For the most part, wool or leather were prefered due to better service-life and seasonal comfort. Let me know if you find any actual documentation to support the therory of canvas leggings.
I Remain,
Your Most Humble Servant,
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