| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Pigeye |
Posted - August 24 2004 : 10:54:02 AM
Do you know if the tattoos in the LOTM are historically correct? Or do you know any other sources of information conserning this subject? (Besides the one chapter in the Book of Buckskinning) |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| wlogwihlas |
Posted - September 05 2004 : 12:40:01 PM
yeah its somewhere near the beginning if i can remember correctly, i found another reference somewhere, i'll have to look. I thought the thunderbird lightened because it was hard to rub the ink in, with all the blood. btw, are you going to ti? |
| Jacy |
Posted - September 01 2004 : 04:52:27 AM
I really went off on one there didn't I - completely off the subject! Sorry Pigeye x Jacy |
| alikws |
Posted - August 31 2004 : 4:20:29 PM
the salt may draw shut the wound, but not as lethal for the cells as alcohol... that may be why rogers thunderbird, done with obsidian slicing and charcol lightened so much... i know the book you're talking about, its orange, roger has it, have to take a look...
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| wlogwihlas |
Posted - August 30 2004 : 2:33:16 PM
Adding on the the cherokee tatooing, one should look at the myths and or spiritual aspect of the tribe, mythological or real animals, designs, i.e algonquian double curves, sacred numbers. that is where i got the inspiration for my tatoos. mike, salt draws in liquid, maybe if the the salt drew the ink into the skin? btw, there is a good book on great lake region clothing, that has references to tatooing, i'll try to dig out the authors name and the title of the book. more to come. |
| alikws |
Posted - August 30 2004 : 11:13:30 AM
the ufo in flames is a stylised bear paw shoulder tatoo that sorta looks like
..___
.(_--_)
..V\/V
.
it's not abenaki, not sure exactly what it is - popular with iraquois and impressions...
reading 'bearing is noble and proud' last night references to cherokee tatoos and ear cutting and wrapping of cherokee being like shawnee... also a reference of wiping the tatoo in progress with
strong salt water to draw in the ink... never caught that... we've been using alcohol for
non-infection reasons {break from historical for health reasons}...
the quote translated comes across ok...
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| Pigeye |
Posted - August 27 2004 : 04:15:48 AM
With "ufo in flames" you probaply mean the mohawks shoulder tattoo?I earlier thought about taking that one but one friend of mine has that so I want have something different.
It`s hard for me to translate the quote so that it would have exactly same meaning in english(It`s supposed to be funny quote). It`s something like this: "Blessed are the people who are broke, for they don`t have any money to make sin."
I really don`t know if that makes any sense in english because I don`t speak it so well. |
| alikws |
Posted - August 26 2004 : 4:30:06 PM
for cherokee patterns, what was seen on bags,horns,beadwork &c _might_ have been tatooed, but there may be conventions on side of body, sex, history of person, type of equipment,and religious preperation i don't know about for cherokee... and getting one because 'it looks cool' with no idea of meanings or whose medicine it is is asking for problems... i've seen museum reenactors fall into that trap... look at the 'ufo in flames' tatoo that shows up in the death of wolfe painting, and how many people have it...
saw the quote, wondered what language until i saw finland, whats it translate to? |
| Pigeye |
Posted - August 26 2004 : 09:29:55 AM
Redbird: You are right about that language thing.He based the other Elvish language on Finnish and the other one in Welsh or something.. It`s quite amazing that you could see that from my quote. |
| Redbird |
Posted - August 25 2004 : 5:40:01 PM
Does anyone know of specific examples of Cherokee design that might have been encorporated into tattoos? My nephew's looking for some ideas that will fit in with his Indian heritage. And Pigeye: I thought, at first, that your quote was written in Elvish - until I saw you were from Finland! Makes sense, since Tolkien supposedly based the Elvish language on that of your native country. For a minute, I thought someone from the LOTR website had cross-posted on the LOTM site! Hope we can uncover some sources for these period tattoos...
Redbird |
| alikws |
Posted - August 25 2004 : 4:55:44 PM
tatoos in the movie are pretty much on, and for painted, look suprisingly good... in the reenacting world, black sharpie drawings can be spotted pretty quick... and modern tatoo guns are a bit too fine and crisp...
other then that article, the only other significant mention is in 'their bearing is noble and proud' by james f o neil... basicly a collection of just about every primary source account describing eastern indians 1650-1800 in one place...
traditional tatooing using traditional methods has gotten a bit rare, but is coming back as the historical world backfeeds into the powwow world... i only know of a few people doing it...
more later... |
| Pigeye |
Posted - August 25 2004 : 10:29:32 AM
But what about the tattoos ? Now I mean also other period tattoos, not only the ones in LOTM.Do you have any good book suggestions? |
| SgtMunro |
Posted - August 25 2004 : 09:58:38 AM
I agree with you, there is a certain amount of expectation from our legenadary and mythical figures. I am kinda partial to the Renaissance Arthurian Tale, although there is nothing wrong with fur-covered bustiers... grrrrowl!!!
Your Most Humble Servant, |
| Jacy |
Posted - August 25 2004 : 09:54:41 AM
You're so right there wouldn't have been anyone to say what's right and wrong because Arthur is a legend. I guess when you see so many films about King Arthur you come to have a certain expectation of how the story should go and the sort of clothes they should wear(e.g Robin Hood in tights)...
The classic Lady of Shalot (think it's by Waterhouse) type image is the sort of Arthur idea I like - the romanticism of the whole 'Arthurian' story. It's difficult to try and explain what I mean - but that image of the clothes and Pre-Raphelite hair is the way I would want my Arthur story to go.
People generally don't like change - I'm just like that, I have a fixed idea on how something should be - things that challenge that ideal usually don't appeal to me. The other thing is I generally tend to dislike the way Hollywood can take a piece of history and twist it to how they want people to see things, I know they've been doing things like that for years but it annoys me no end! I like historical accuracy it's how things should be seen - the truth. Things like in the 50s when they had the Vikings with horns and there were so many cowboy movies out that portayed 'Injuns' as baddies - when they were invaded by Westerners and there very existance threatened. The Westerners as always were greedy and assumed that as there were no fences on the land it wasn't 'owned' and went over to settle their claim. I hope I'm not offending here I've just always hated the way Hollywood do things like that.
Jacy :)
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| SgtMunro |
Posted - August 25 2004 : 09:39:15 AM
quote:
Jacy said: I don't know so this probably won't help but big budget films (I'm guessing) would have employed someone to tell them all about historical accuracy. Although I guess it's sadly not always the case (e.g King Arthur which is really pap).
I don't think that there would have been much use for a 'Historical Adviser' on the set of King Arthur, since he is a mythical figure of Ancient Britain. Although, some experts on myths & legends clearly show that there were "Three Ages" of the Arthurian Mythos; The first is set right after the Romans depart, the second is during the Pre-Crusade Dark Ages and the third is during the Renaissance. The differences are that the later periods have a more idealistic approach and include the modern concept of what chivalry was.
In a nutshell, the legend of King Arthur is alot like the SCA; that being, it can be whatever you want it to be. Weather it is fur-covered bustiers and helmets with horns, or the shiny articulated and perfectly formed plate armor of 'ideal' knights, just pick your time era and go with it...
Your Most Humble Servant,
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| Jacy |
Posted - August 25 2004 : 03:33:26 AM
I don't know so this probably won't help but big budget films (I'm guessing) would have employed someone to tell them all about historical accuracy. Although I guess it's sadly not always the case (e.g King Arthur which is really pap).
Plus DDL - as he allegedly slept with his long rifle to keep 'in part' would probably have had enough clout to have made sure stuff was historically accurate. Could be talking rubbish though!
Jacy |
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