| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Oneida |
Posted - February 07 2004 : 8:30:16 PM
I'm on ther verge of changing my persona from a longhunter to that of an Iroquois warrior. I plan on shaving my head and wearing a hairpiece. I have some questions: How well does spirit gum hold a hair piece to the scalp? By the way, How many Indian reenactors in LOTM wore hairpieces?
Also, what can I do to make my skin darker, besides sun tans and heat lamps? I'm really fascinated by the make-up techniques used in LOTM.
I'm new to this board. Thanks in advance for all of your help. |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Bookworm |
Posted - April 16 2004 : 9:27:21 PM
Welcome, hatcreekgirl! You're not crashing the party -- the doors are wide open. They let me in not long ago, and I'm delighted to see that another person from the central Susquehanna Valley has joined up. Did you go to Shikellamy High School? (I went to the much more boringly named West Snyder, now part of Midd-West.) A tremendous amount of work has gone into the website you provided the link to. As for Shikellamy's origins, I had two sources: In Indians of Pennsylvania, Paul A.W. Wallace says that Shikellamy was "an Oneida chief who, according to the naturalist John Bartram, who met him in 1743, was 'a Frenchman born at Montreal, and adopted by the Oneidas after being taken prisoner.'" An article in the 1999 Snyder County Historical Society Bulletin by Malcolm Brown entitled "Native Americans Indigenous to Snyder County, Pennsylvania and the Surrounding Region" says the same thing, without citing any specific source. Whether those two authors are correct, I don't know. |
| hatcreekgirl |
Posted - April 15 2004 : 3:07:09 PM
from oneida: As for whites who became Indian, don't forget Shikellamy
dont mean to crash the party, but i dont believe your info is correct, that site you provided the link to. i live here, in the sunbury area which was the original shamokin shikellamy hailed from. as we here all know it, shikellamy was 100% indian and so were his sons. he was of susquehannock heritage and was adopted into the oneidas. the delaware called him minqua or mingo (literally means trecherous), and also referred to the susquehannock. shikellamy was friend to john logan, a white man who was secretary to william penn, and james logan, penn 'family steward.' they say shikellamy named his sons after them, john and james logan. of course, they both had traditional names as well. other sources say it was white people who attached the logan names to the men: from http://www.cynthiaswope.com/withinthevines/penna/native/Mingo.html
" Conrad Weiser records in his journals that he had little difficulty distinguishing between Shikellamyís sons. The elder of the two was called Tachnechdours, or John, and the younger Tahgahjute, or James Logan, so named by his father in honor of the Secretary of the Provincial Council of Pennsylvania. For the next 15 years, both sons were generally referred to as the 'Shikellamies,' and it was not until 1765, when they went their separate ways, that white men began to attach to John's name the surname 'Logan,' by mistake. So it was that both brothers became 'Logan.' Without the name John or James attached to Logan, it became virtually impossible to tell which Logan was meant when spoken of. ....."
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| Bookworm |
Posted - March 21 2004 : 11:47:53 AM
Hi Oneida,
I've been meaning to reply to this post for some time now...apologies for the delay. Anyway, the name "Scoouwa" (two oo's) rang a bell, but I had to track down where I read about him. He was James Smith, and when he was 18 and helping to build Braddock's Road, he was captured by Indians, taken to Fort Duquesne, and eventually spent five years living with the Caughnawagas (Mohawks allied to the French), mostly in Ohio. "Scoouwa: James Smith's Indian Captivity Narrative" is the narrative that he wrote; Amazon.com lists it as out of print, but they have some copies. I haven't read the entire narrative, only an excerpt from it that's included in "Captured by the Indians: 15 Firsthand Accounts, 1750-1870," edited by Frederick Drimmer and published by Dover. You might think that the period of Indian captivity would have to have been the most interesting part of James Smith's life, but that's debatable -- here's one site that tells about the rest of his life: http://www.pa-roots.com/~bedford/history/histjamsm.html
As for whites who became Indian, don't forget Shikellamy (various spellings, also "Swatana"), the Oneida Indian who was resident at Shamokin, here in Pa., having been sent by the Iroquois to oversee affairs in that area of the Commonwealth, and Conrad Weiser's partner in peacekeeping and diplomacy. He was born in Montreal and taken captive by the Oneidas while young. |
| Seamus |
Posted - February 20 2004 : 06:33:45 AM
Sorry, Oneida......we've allowed your thread to drift off topic with all this flirting and so on.
Let's get it back on track, gang. |
| Seamus |
Posted - February 20 2004 : 06:30:49 AM
I don't know if OMV can take us both at once, Duncan, might test their tolerances a bit! Give the lovely Lady Munro my very best hug.......until I see her! Yer a lucky lad, Duncan......ye've got a real keeper there! Of course, ye've known that all along. |
| SgtMunro |
Posted - February 20 2004 : 12:54:23 AM
My Cousin Seamus & Wilderness Woman,
If I can get the time off from the job in August, I'll make the trek up to Old Mill Village. Lady Munro jumps at any chance to see her 'Guardian of the Pennsylvania Wilderness'; and Wilderness Woman, I shall bring you that tankard in person.
Your Most Humble Servant,
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| Wilderness Woman |
Posted - February 18 2004 : 8:20:03 PM
[WW folds her hands meekly in front of her and with quiet voice says]
Alright. I'm sitting and I'm paying attention. Thank you to you both, Sargent Munro and Captain Slease. You are not only officers, you are also gentlemen.
That is a good website, isn't it? And you are right, Sgt. I do love that era of our history and the people who lived it. And would that I could also dress in "funny clothes" (ladies' clothes, not a kilt!), although I wouldn't care to do the hamming-it-up-in-front-of-the-public part.
Seamus, what goes through this Julie Public's mind is stated in my signature below: |
| Seamus |
Posted - February 18 2004 : 6:58:48 PM
Aye, Duncan, that I have! We sure have a ball at it, don't we?? Sometimes I wonder just what goes through Joe or Julie Public's mind when they witness some of it......
WW, you certainly do belong here....now sit down and pay attention.....chime in whenever you feel the urge, and have some fun! If you will come to Old Mill Village when we are there in August, I will see to it that you have a first row seat.
Get 'er a tankard, Duncan! |
| SgtMunro |
Posted - February 18 2004 : 6:43:16 PM
quote:
Oh! Well, OK. You do have a point, Sgt Munro. I'm just always a little concerned about "invading" you re-enactors' territory. Thanks!
Wilderness Woman, how could you possibly "invade" the area in which you belong. Folks like you and I all share a passionate love of history, and especially reading of the individual lives of those who were here before us. Heck, the only difference between you and I, is that I occasionally dress in funny clothes and 'ham it up' in front of an audience (Just ask Seamus, he has seen me in action).
P.S.- I checked out the link you provided to the Oneida-Nation Website. It is packed with good stuff, and warrants several visits (I just have to have my legal tablet and pen ready for notes). Thanks again.
Your Most Humble Servant,
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| Wilderness Woman |
Posted - February 18 2004 : 1:01:34 PM
For those who are interested, here is a link to a good webpage that gives a lot of information about the Oneida and the Battle of Oriskany.
Remember... the battle is significant for another reason, besides marking the first war allegiance between the new country of the United States and another nation. (Yes, the Oneidas were first. France was second.) It also marks the first time that members of the Iroquois Confederacy fought against each other in about 400 years. And with that action, the great 6 nation Confederacy was broken. "The Broken Chain."
Read about it here.
Lonewolf, look carefully and you will see a mention of Good Peter! |
| Wilderness Woman |
Posted - February 18 2004 : 07:54:01 AM
Oh! Well, OK. You do have a point, Sgt Munro. I'm just always a little concerned about "invading" you re-enactors' territory. Thanks! |
| SgtMunro |
Posted - February 18 2004 : 06:08:23 AM
quote:
Well, I will stop talking genealogy on a Muster forum.
Why would you think that genealogy wouldn't belong in a forum for reenactors like "The Muster"? Genealogy is as much a part of Living History as any other form of research, and for first-person impressions of historical personas it is critical. Besides, it also interests me, so I guess you can say I have a bias...
Your most Humble Servant,
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| Oneida |
Posted - February 17 2004 : 4:17:16 PM
This is wonderful stuff, keep it coming! |
| Wilderness Woman |
Posted - February 17 2004 : 08:26:56 AM
Lonewolf,
I have heard of and read a bit about Good Peter. What a fascinating story! Thank you for telling me more.
I am interested in the Mohawk and the Oneida people because of my ancestral "connections" to them. My German Palatine ancestors settled the Mohawk Valley, near present day St. Johnsville and Little Falls, in about 1725. They were friends with the Mohawk and knew King Hendrick, Sir William, and the Brants. Our family has a deed to some land that was presented by the Mohawk to Anna Margareitta Zimmerman (my ancestor), about 1750, for her love and friendship to the people. Family legend says that she was a Mohawk "princess", who married my 6th great-grandfather Jacob Zimmerman, but no one has been able to verify this as truth.
This all changed, of course, when the Mohawk sided with the British during the Revolutionary War. However, these same families of mine fought side-by-side with the Oneida at the Battle of Oriskany. As you know, the Oneida were the first American allies in war.
It sounds as though perhaps the Klingensmith family was also a German Palatine family?
Well, I will stop talking genealogy on a Muster forum. Sorry! I get carried away because it is such wonderful stuff. |
| lonewolf |
Posted - February 17 2004 : 01:15:15 AM
Wilderness Woman,
My 4x great grandfather's white name was John Peter Klingensmith. He was captured by the Seneca at Ft. Klingensmith (now Jeanette, Penna) in 1781. He was eight years old. His parents and an infant were killed in the raid. A brother Casper (11 years old) was taken as well, but escaped the first night. Other siblings were not captured. He was given to the Oneida to raise and became the only white chief that the Oneida have ever had. They called him "White Peter" and "Good Peter". I don't know his name in the Iroquois language. His wife, my 4x great grandmother was Seneca, and went by the name Molly. There again, I don't know what her indian name was. He fought in the War of 1812 with Canada and the British. His portrait was done in oils, in 1792, by Col. John Trumbull, a Revolutionary War artist. White Peter's portrait is now in the Trumbull Gallery at Yale University. I have obtained a copy of it. After the War of 1812, he came back to the area where he was captured and lived for about a year with family members. He and his Seneca wife tried their hand at farming. His Klingensmith family members wanted him to rid himself of his Seneca wife, since she belonged to the nation that killed his parents. He refused to divorce his wife, and finally moved back to Ontario, Canada, where they both lived to very old age. They are buried in Ontario. They had several children during their lifetime.
I attended a Klingensmith reunion about one mile from the Bushy Run Battlefield, last summer. Several of us at the reunion were mixed bloods. About four were direct descendents of White Peter. They requested that I wear my Shawnee regalia. The old Forbes Road runs next to the reunion pavillion. Hannastown is right up the road, as well. One of the Klingensmith log cabins is now at the restored fort and village.
I am in contact with the descendents of White Peter (of course I am one) and Casper, who escaped. Casper is buried with two of his daughters about eight miles from where I was born.
Most of the white settlers that we fought so long ago are now all my family. The circle is complete. The Creator works in ways that we can't possibly understand.
Indians belief in the power of the circle. Life is a circle from birth to death to rebirth with the Creator. The sun, the moon and stars all circles. The seasons are a never-ending circle. The wind in it's greatest power, moves in circles. Water swirls in circles. The birds make their nests in circles, for the Creator taught them to do this. The birds carry our prayers higher up to the Creator. To honor the birds for this gift, we wear their feathers, the highest of honors. We give feathers for great deeds.
We dance in circles to honor the Creator. All things that form circles on our regalia honor the Creator.
Ken Lonewolf
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| lonewolf |
Posted - February 17 2004 : 12:15:07 AM
Hi Oneida,
Black all over the body was cut-ta-ho-ta. The warrior who painted himseld solid black was not going to back down in battle, but would die fighting. At least this was Shawnee pectise. Death before dishonor! |
| Oneida |
Posted - February 16 2004 : 4:16:29 PM
By the way, I have a question regarding face and body paint. I know the Iroquois were fond of black for face paint. What were typical designs? I've heard three black stripes on each side of the face, representing the six tribes of the confederacy. What about solid colors of the face (solid black etc.), like my avatar? |
| Oneida |
Posted - February 16 2004 : 4:09:25 PM
Thanks Young Native, you certainly have helped. Where would be a good place to buy the book? Who is the author?
Oneida |
| YoungNative |
Posted - February 15 2004 : 9:21:51 PM
You might wanna read some books on the subject of native life. I recomend Scouwa, it's an excelent book to start. Tells the story of a captured colonialist, who is taken into live with natives.
I usually use a silk head rag with a broach, that has hair, feathers, and a hair . It attaches directly to my hair.
I atten a failry conservative boarding highschool that doesn't allow shaving heads. So untill i'm out of here i can't shave my head
As for skin color, it doesn't really matter, You could be a captive taken into the tribe, so ur skin would be white. Make sure u use face paint to cover ur face though. I also recomend a shirt, if ur not to pale.
I've also read about natives around minnesota that were pale skinned and blue eyed blondes. This was said to be becuase of the vikings settleing in that area. Don't quote me on that cuase i'm not to sure about how accurate that is.
Hope i helped,
-Ousiaw kitehi (mark)
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| Oneida |
Posted - February 15 2004 : 4:06:07 PM
Thank you Lonewolf for your post. That's really cool about your great-great-great-great grandfather.
I chose to use the stick on scalp lock because I'm bald in the wrong place to grow a natural one. I have gone on-line to the Oneida website and received some good historical knowledge. I'm fascinated by these people and their culture.
Wilderness Woman, I do for a fact know what you're talking about. I love Oregon. What a gorgeous state. |
| Wilderness Woman |
Posted - February 15 2004 : 3:01:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by lonewolf
My 4x great grandfather was chief of the Oneidas in the late 1700's and early 1800's. He was total white. He was captured by the Seneca in 1781 and was given to the Oneida to raise.
Lonewolf,
What was his name, both his white name and his Oneida name, and where was he captured from?
A few years back, I had the pleasure of hearing a talk given by a man who is a direct descendant of Mary Jemison, whose Seneca name was Dehgewanus (White Woman of the Genesee). It was fascinating.
www.letchworthparkhistory.com/jem.html |
| lonewolf |
Posted - February 13 2004 : 10:40:15 PM
Bezahn Oneida,
Don't worry about skin color. My 4x great grandfather was chief of the Oneidas in the late 1700's and early 1800's. He was total white. He was captured by the Seneca in 1781 and was given to the Oneida to raise.
He became the only white chief that they have ever had.
He plucked all of his facial hair and the top of his head as well. He left a scalplock hanging down the back of his head.
His wife, my 4x great grandmother was full blood Seneca.
A lot of captured white boys became warriors. We were very light-skinned anyway. Don't worry about Hollywood, they trash history and reality. All Iroquois did not dress the same, so look up old paintings of the Six Nations, and decide which one you want to be.
Kongo-neeleemah,
Ken Lonewolf/ Shawnee-Seneca-Oneida
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| Wilderness Woman |
Posted - February 13 2004 : 2:27:07 PM
Oneida, you are making me homesick!
I was raised in Oregon, in the beautiful Willamette Valley, which lies between the Cascade range and the Coast range (as you probably know). I am very familiar with Washington state, as well, and I know exactly what you are talking about.
I love the beauty and the history of New York state and much of my heritage is here, but sometimes I really miss those mountains that are "real" mountains! |
| Oneida |
Posted - February 13 2004 : 2:07:59 PM
I envy you Alikws, being so close to Lake George. You're right
about the terrain being similar. I am fortunate that I live in Central Washington where we have varied types of terrain. I
live very close to the Cascades. Some of those mountain meadows look very similar to the "massacre scene" in LOTM.
In September, the Northwest Colonial Reenactors Assoc. has a tactical on Martin's Island on the Columbia River. We canoe in and battle the King's forces and his Indian allies. What great fun. Being an Oneida, I fight for the continentals. The island is uninhabited and has some great terrain. |
| alikws |
Posted - February 13 2004 : 12:55:57 PM
bit on the distant side - i'm pretty much in daytrip distance to lake george^H^H^H^Hlac du st sacrement... fort #4 in charlston nh is 2 highway exits off... big differences from northwest coast culture to eastern woodlands... although
the terrain and food was'nt too different...
more later... |
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