| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Kurt |
Posted - October 30 2003 : 7:07:25 PM
What are the things to look for when checking a used Brown Bess? Are there good manufacturers and ones to stay away from? (I'm sure real ones are way beyond possibility so I'm thinking reproduction.) Do certain things wear out? All hints appreciated.
Kurt |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Movielegends |
Posted - August 11 2004 : 8:27:24 PM
CABELA'S Sporting Goods has the 2nd Model PEDERSOLI Brown Bess on sale for $749.00 - www.cabelas.com, search "Brown Bess". Pedersoli is about the best you can buy - and this is a great price! |
| SgtMunro |
Posted - August 05 2004 : 4:37:37 PM
quote:
Gus Fisher said: I'm sure you do your part for your company, didn't mean to imply otherwise and sorry if it seemed that way.
Heck Gus, I didn't take it that way. I knew what you meant, and I agree with you 100%, it is critical to teach proper maintenence on these weapons. Not just because of the monetary investment (Somewhat substancial on custom pieces), but also for safety reasons.
Have you ever given thought to doing F&IW reencting? It is not much of a jump from RevWar. There are two good F&IW highlander groups near you (That is of course, if you want to keep doing a highlander impression), the closest is Malcolm's 'Muskets of the Crown' and of course my group 'The Blockhouse Muskets' (Named in honor of the Fort Pitt Blockhouse, still standing today at Point State Park). As Malcolm noted, his does the Grenadier Company of the 77th Highland Regiment and my group does Captain Graham's Company of the 42nd Royal Highland Regiment (Which was at Fort Pitt 1763-1767). Just something to think about, we'll both be at Bushy Run this weekend for the 241st Anniversary Battle Reenactment.
quote:
Also noted: I never heard the explanation you mentioned for the symptoms. I appreciate it. I'm just thankful it wasn't something worse from the years between Cambodia and Somalia and a few beyond that.
I am thankful that the FS 'unoffically' explained that to me. Subsequent trips to the VA gave me no answers, but at least the symptoms subsided somewhat with time. If you want to talk, send me a Private Message, and I'll go into more detail (As I said before, I won't be home this weekend, but I will answer you when I get back). These good folks don't need to hear about the battle ailments of a couple of old warriors like us, and besides it helps to talk privately with someone who has been there.
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
| Gus Fisher |
Posted - August 05 2004 : 10:00:45 AM
Sergeant Munro,
I'm sure you do your part for your company, didn't mean to imply otherwise and sorry if it seemed that way.
I just see so many folks who don't seem to have a good bit of knowledge about musket maintenance and their "broken" muskets are often the result of just lack of good maintenance.
I never heard the explanation you mentioned for the symptoms. I appreciate it. I'm just thankful it wasn't something worse from the years between Cambodia and Somalia and a few beyond that.
|
| SgtMunro |
Posted - August 05 2004 : 04:44:44 AM
quote:
Also noted: Kudo's to Sergeant Munro and Fitz Williams and all those who use a scraper most every time they clean their muskets. However, there seems to be at least some, if not many people who don't know about using them and may I suggest it is something we all pass along to others, especially the new folks?
Well, I do my part with the lads in Graham's Coy. On the subject of small arms PM, I always say, "If you fail her, she will most certainly fail you!"
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
| SgtMunro |
Posted - August 04 2004 : 11:48:55 PM
quote:
Gus Fisher said: I tried to go to Williamsburg this year, but I had some difficulties with the Malaria or whatever I picked up in Somalia. At least it isn't communicable and they got a little different balance on my meds that seem to be working better.
You know, Gus, it sounds like a dose of what I had from the Gulf War (Malaria-like symptoms). Unofficially, the flight surgeon told me that it was related to the combination of Cholera and Yellow Fever Vaccines. At least that was the therory in 1991...
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
| Fitz Williams |
Posted - August 04 2004 : 11:28:37 PM
And speaking of Besses, at this summer's Gathering, Eric Hurley, aka Soldier #2, had the Bess he used in LOTM. It is a Jap Bess marked with "Navy Arms". He fired it a few times at the Mohican Games on Saturday. |
| Gus Fisher |
Posted - August 04 2004 : 9:15:49 PM
My apologies to Sergeants Munro and MacWilliams,
Perhaps you will excuse me as it seems I have Half Zheimer's and working on Three Quarter Zheimers. Not long after I posted that, I went DUH!, but of course it was too late.
I tried to go to Williamsburg this year, but I had some difficulties with the Malaria or whatever I picked up in Somalia. At least it isn't communicable and they got a little different balance on my meds that seem to be working better.
Kudo's to Sergeant Munro and Fitz Williams and all those who use a scraper most every time they clean their muskets. However, there seems to be at least some, if not many people who don't know about using them and may I suggest it is something we all pass along to others, especially the new folks?
Yr Hbl & Obt Svt,
Gus Fisher
|
| SgtMunro |
Posted - August 04 2004 : 8:35:04 PM
quote:
Gus Fisher said: Sergeant Munro might remember me as one of two guests from the Major's Coy, 42nd RHR as his unit so kindly allowed us to participate with the Captain's Coy at the Under the Red Coat Event at Williamsburg a couple/three of years ago.
Hi Gus,
As Malcolm said, 'twas he, not I, who was at 'Redcoat'. I thought for a second, "Hmmmm... Another Sergeant Munro of the 42nd RHR? A RevWar one? This is too cool, I've got to find this cat." I also do RevWar, but I am a private with Timpany's Coy. of the 4th Bn. New Jersey Volunteers (It's the green coat, I just gotta be different). Either way, it is good meeting you, albeit electronically.
In reference to your question, my Pederisoli is about six years old, and it does not have a breech plug. I use a brass scraper, and steaming hot three-hour old coffee. I find that it gets stuff out that I didn't know was in there. Then again, it could be in the coffee itself...
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
| Fitz Williams |
Posted - August 04 2004 : 8:07:58 PM
quote:
one might have to resort to a brass or bronze scraper
I use one of these every time I clean my gun, whether a smoothbore or a rifle. Also a copper brush. |
| Sjt. Malcolm MacWilliam |
Posted - August 04 2004 : 4:11:02 PM
WHOOPS....gotta see who posts what on this thing.....I was browsing through these messages under cousin Many Flag's moniker.....I'll use me own next time......Malcolm, Sarge |
| Many Flags |
Posted - August 04 2004 : 4:07:01 PM
Gus.....it's me not Munro....both sarges, both large, Munro does hats, we do Grens, he is with 42nd F and I and our group does 42nd Rev. War and 77th F and I. So, you were with me at Wmsburg two years ago. MIssed you this year....saw your name on the roster, but you must have been detained with the baggage??!! Hope to see you again sometime.
1st Sjt. Malcolm MacWilliam, 77th/42nd Grenadiers |
| Gus Fisher |
Posted - August 04 2004 : 3:19:30 PM
Wow, just found this forum whilst looking up some info on Japanese Besses for another forum.
Sergeant Munro might remember me as one of two guests from the Major's Coy, 42nd RHR as his unit so kindly allowed us to participate with the Captain's Coy at the Under the Red Coat Event at Williamsburg a couple/three of years ago. May I publicly state how much we appreciated falling in with them and thoroughly enjoyed ourselves?
Even though we are from a "low browed bonnet bunch" they kindly allowed us to participate in their most fashionable "hat" unit. Of course, I'm the true Campbell, not the McDonald in disguise that was with me. Chuckle.
Anyway, I read with interest about the new repro's not having separate breech plugs and I think Sergeant Munro mentioned the Pedersoli does not have one. My old Pedersoli Carbine had one and I will have to check the "new" Pedersoli I got from Navy Arms last year has one.
I just thought I might mention one problem with not having a breech plug is that a hardened "plug" of powder residue will form in the breech and could cause real problems with functioning. I dismount my breech every year and sometimes find a formed plug just ahead of the breech plug, even with careful barrel cleaning. With the breech plug out, one can punch through the residue plug and clean it thoroughly. If you don't have a breech plug, and a residue plug forms, one might have to resort to a brass or bronze scraper on the end of a rammer or threaded rod between soakings of one's favorite solvent, but it is going to be much more difficult to do. So another good reason to clean one's musket carefully.
Yr Hbl & Obt Svt,
Gus Fisher |
| alikws |
Posted - April 05 2004 : 4:35:20 PM
interesting...
a bit of talk also on revlist about the india besses and discriminating general, with passionate arguments on both sides...
i've got one of the first india pattern india made besses, cut down and reworked a bit...
the lock needed polishing of internal parts and the main spring lightened [i think it came off a buick]... the feather spring was replaced with one from a pedrosoli [lighter and different bend] and the frizzen case hardened... the lock to barrel fit was tightened up... it took some work, but that bright shiny polish is now a dark worn and slightly pitted rust brown... the stock was reshaped a bit, given a proper swell, and narrowed and lightened considerably... in short it made for a solid reliable canoe gun with good flint life... i carried that in '03 on the lake, using a flint that saw all of cherry valley a couple weeks earlier - no misfires
for comparison a jap bess that pulled guard duty over a fireplace for a couple decades, relieved only by sar-type parades needed almost all parts case hardened, the internals polished and mild reshaping, and the frizzen case hardened before it would even spark enough to fire... that ended up one of the better handling and most reliable muskets i ever carried...
view the india muskets as kits in the white, expect to do some mild tinkering, and they can be inexpensive reliable solid historicly accurate muskets...
on the other hand the pedrosoli's have some problems [shape, barrel too heavy &c], but you can resonably expect to buy one from the sutlers friday night, clean and inspect it, and be ready for saturdays spectator battle...
if you realy want quality, an original is unbeatable in regards to fit and finish, but they cost
the government a soldiers pay for a month, in an era where labor was cheap.... lots of small details you don't see in a reproduction, like case hardened screwheads, inspectors marks and job number on _every_ part [based on an 1863 springfield and an 1835 prussian 1809 musket]
more later... alikws - an abenaki with a screwplate! |
| Scott Bubar |
Posted - April 04 2004 : 6:43:31 PM
There are some comments from one of the Military Heritage people here that you might find interesting. |
| Henry dit Henry |
Posted - April 03 2004 : 3:43:10 PM
Remember that after 1760 a rather large number of french
guns had been taken from the "habitants " of former Nouvelle
France by the British governement , many of those are described
in the book " Weapons of the American Révolution "
by G. Neuman
|
| Fitz Williams |
Posted - March 08 2004 : 01:18:11 AM
I once bought a Japanese-make Harpers Ferry pistol, and thought I got a good deal. Then I showed it to a dealer, and he told me never to fire it. The breech plug had been soldered in, not threaded! Another gun I bought turned out to be short-breeched. Now I am really wary of anything I buy, unless I know who made it. I believe I would proof the gun with 160 gr. and two patched balls, or better yet, have someone else do it. |
| SgtMunro |
Posted - March 07 2004 : 5:27:54 PM
quote:
Fitz asks: Maybe it is possible to dull that finish, but it just makes me wonder how it got that way in the first place.
The finish does dull after a while, the bright finish is due to buffing with an air powered wheel (a querry sent to the manufacturer via DG confirmed that therory).
quote:
Fitz asks: And has anyone removed the breech plug on these? It might be something worth considering before firing one.
There was no breech plug on the one I dismounted, it is machined from a solid piece of ordinance steel (Just like the Pederisoli 'Bess'). You could magnaflux the barrel, and that would show any external cracks, or you could have a complete NDI (Non Destructive Inspection) performed by any certified metalurgist who would be able to locate inperfections within the steel itself. Such inspections are not that costly (less than $100), but if peace of mind is what you are looking for, it is pretty cheap.
Judging from my own experience with these weapons, they are very servicable. The man in my company who has one spent all of last season firing blank loads of 130 grains FFg. He also fired it with ball cartridge, using .715 ball and a charge of 120 grains FFg. So far, so good...
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
| Fitz Williams |
Posted - March 06 2004 : 1:29:31 PM
I don't know that I have seen the latest offerings from India, but of those I have seen, the metal parts look like they have been chromed and polished with a buffing wheel. I have never seen any custom made guns or reproductions which looked like that. I doubt that any of the originals ever did. I once took the writing off the barrel of a CVA pistol, and polished it with 500 grit sandpaper until not a scratch mark or file mark was left, and the barrel never shined like those Indian guns do. Maybe it is possible to dull that finish, but it just makes me wonder how it got that way in the first place. And has anyone removed the breech plug on these? It might be something worth considering before firing one. |
| SgtMunro |
Posted - March 06 2004 : 08:51:08 AM
quote:
Jeff42nd asks: What do you guys think about them? Has anyone bought from this site? What the 411 about this musket or company?
That is where Corporal MacInyre purchased his Long Land Pattern from. Since it was the first production run, there were some 'bugs' to work out. The most serious was when his briddle cracked at Monmouth. He contacted the folks at MH/DG, and they asked to see the lock. After he mailed it, he started having reservations about the company. However, within three weeks, they sent his old lock back and also gave him a brand new lock assembly to install in his weapon. Needless to say that he was very pleased with the service standards of Military Heritage/Discriminating General, and he will continue to do business with them.
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
| jeff42nd |
Posted - March 06 2004 : 07:54:13 AM
Hey Guys
I found a 1756 Version Long Land Pattern Brown Bess Flintlock Musket
for $539. Accrding to the site the "vent is not drilled". I was looking at the pictures that they have and it looks really close to the original Bess.
What do you guys think about them? Has anyone bought from this site? What the 411 about this musket or company?
http://www.militaryheritage.com/muskets.htm
42nd Highlander
Murray's Company
Private Jeff |
| Kurt |
Posted - March 04 2004 : 5:26:01 PM
I found an application for an explosives licence and it says no license needed to possess 5 pounds or less so yes to transport more than five pounds requires a $50 license and a $50 fingerprinting (maybe only the licence annually). |
| Kurt |
Posted - March 04 2004 : 5:03:53 PM
I was talking on the phone with a fellow in Massachusetts about buying powder and I think he said possess but I will try to figure out how to check. Perhaps my sergeant (who also is a sutler for flintlocks and parts like springs) has gone through the intense pain of New York licencing.
The need for a New York CCW for any operational pistol is a fact. I could get started on what the governor of New York is trying to do to pistol permits but this is a family-oriented place so I better not. |
| SgtMunro |
Posted - March 04 2004 : 4:45:32 PM
Kurt, is the law such that you are only allowed to purchase and/or possess five pounds of powder? I can see where it would interfere with the logistics of any moderate sized reenactment group.
New York has some strange laws; for instance part of my soldier's uniform is a gunmetal stocked highland pistol, and in order for my men to carry their pistols they would have to have a New York CCW (Weapon Carry Permit). I guess that they had a rash of robberies by men in kilts brandishing late-17th century flintlock pistols...
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
| Kurt |
Posted - March 04 2004 : 06:20:55 AM
Yes, Sarge, with New York only allowing a person to have five pounds of black powder, you kinda have to make group buys. It isn't clear if at least five guys and gals have to go pick it up so when you cross the border there are enough people on hand. A sergeant of our Ranger company has a pound of FFFg he can spare so I will be ok this year. I guess we are supposed to make our own.  |
| SgtMunro |
Posted - March 03 2004 : 8:26:28 PM
You are right, Kurt, there are excellent weapons available at a more reasonable cost. As to the black powder issue, unfortunately our friends at the ATF have made the retail store sale so difficult as to scare a good number of FFL holders off. A solution to this, if it is permissable in your state, is to get some of your buddies to pool their money and buy a case from a distributor like Maine Powder Warehouse. The cost is less than $9.00/pound, and they only carry quality brands. I have an account through them, and I have always received satisfactory service.
Your Most Humble Servant,
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