| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Lt. General Darcy |
Posted - October 30 2004 : 10:55:17 AM
Please understand I'm not trying to offend US members by saying I hate The Patriot or trying to be mean to anyone who was a reenactor in it, so if you may be offended look away now ad dn't read any further.
The Patriot in my oppinion is rubbish because it is historicaly incorrect and it insults the memoriy of all those who died in Americas first civil war who fought for there king. The character of Col. Tavington is really only an evil version of Col. Tarelton and is the filmmakers attempt at making Col. Tarelton into a villain wich is an insult to Liverpudlians who he is one of there heros.
I also don't like the way the british are reduced to evil Nazi and go around being very cartonised villains. It also makes the war seem more popular than it was e.g. there is no mention of canada which is bigger than the USA and was almost a complete country then where as the USA was only a tiny bit at the cost!
Also it doesn't mention we were letting slaves have there freedom and the rebels weren't and the fact we freed rebel prisoners on the condition that they will not fight us in future but the rebels killed their prisoners!
I hate the way filmakers draw a wedge between the USA and UK when we are each others closest allies its dumb!
Look at The Patriot then look at LOTM and we see which one is clearly more acurate and far better! |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Army_Brat84 |
Posted - February 19 2007 : 03:30:49 AM
As far as the first post on The Patriot, most of the criticism is well-founded, but I think the general is being a little too nice to Tarleton, who with his Tory Legion butchered Continental soldiers who were attempting to surrender at the Waxhaus (spelling may be incorrect), which is documented by a surgeon. |
| Obediah |
Posted - August 21 2006 : 11:23:48 PM
The Patriot: "Braveheart" meets "Glory" meets "The Swamp Fox." Did I miss anything? |
| Steve S |
Posted - February 05 2005 : 5:52:51 PM
Another thought from the UK..I enjoyed The Patriot as much as I enjoyed Braveheart..fine as long as you turn off all historical criticism(and I'm the man whose wife tells him to shut up in cinemas when a minute fault in uniform appears...) |
| wlogwihlas |
Posted - January 12 2005 : 4:40:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Grenouille
Hello,
Where are the Native Americans in the film? (They had hired Native reenactors)
It is the the assumtion of many that native reenactors are absent of native blood. This is not true, the majority of native reenactors that I know have blood in them, including myself. It bothers me when it is assumed that because one is "reenacting" a native, he couldn't possible have any native blood in him/her. I dont mean to come of harshly, but it is the way i feel. Sincerely Wlogwihlas.
p.s. other than that, i agree, lotm is much better, they should have hired Mann. |
| Lt. General Darcy |
Posted - November 27 2004 : 4:34:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Lt. General Darcy
I agree with what Lonewolf it doesn't show the native americans at all, which it should of been!
Hawkeye Joe if this is the part you mean about spelling and typing, I see what you mean I must have been drunk when I wrote this because it should say:
I agree with what Lonewolf it doesn't show the Native Americans at all, which it should of!
I think anyway! 
I don't want to tell my age but I will say I am fairly young but not a child! so I'm between 16-25 
|
| Jacy |
Posted - November 26 2004 : 03:19:09 AM
Me too!
He was fantastic - my dad was lucky enough to see him on the stage performing as 'Henry the Fifth' - and well, he said he was amazing!
Jacy x |
| SgtMunro |
Posted - November 25 2004 : 2:27:00 PM
quote:
Jacy noted: I think that as we have (Brits) such fab actors... Ken Branagh, Alan Rickman, Gary Oldman ... the list goes on! All would say that it's so much more fun to play a baddy and to quote Ken Branagh 'one can never be too hammy' either.
I agree Jacy, you guys do groom some the best of stage and screen. I really enjoyed Branagh's performance of the title role in Shakespeare's 'Henry the Fifth'.
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
| Jacy |
Posted - November 25 2004 : 03:37:59 AM
At the end of the day, this film would only be a 'bad movie' if it claimed to be historically accurate, it doesn't so it's not. It's a great piece of cinematography, or a good watch as others may say.
I think that as we have (Brits) such fab actors who turn their hand so well to portray evil aristocrats - we show off our acting in films like that.
Ken Branagh, Alan Rickman, Gary Oldman ... the list goes on! All would say that it's so much more fun to play a baddy and to quote Ken Branagh 'one can never be too hammy' either.
Jacy x |
| Hawkeye_Joe |
Posted - November 24 2004 : 10:54:47 AM
Not meaning to offend the good General Darcy but can you please tell us your age? Your typing/spelling skills do not match your elequence. I can understand the Brits not liking the way that they have been portrayed in American Independence films. (Little known fact, so as to not offend the English people Walt Disney made all of the hateful Redcoat enemy in "The Swamp Fox" TV show into Loyalists. It was cancelled when it was boycotted in Canada by Loyalist decendents) Those of us who re-enact the war in the southern colonies know of the animosity directed to Tarleton back in that period. He was no "hero" to us.. nor will he ever be he was a "Butcher". "The Patriot" played on that hatred and expanded it somewhat. Remember that Tarleton's men were all Loyalists not British Troops. Most of the Redcoats in our area were Organized Loyalist Militia. As Duncan says.."Things were done, none were spared."
Tarleton's men burned Presbyterian meeting houses, an iron works, individual houses, shot a young lad solely for running away on their approach, took two young lads prisoner and planned to hang them both for melting down pewter plates to make musket balls, held a reaping hook to a wife and mother's throat with the threat to "cut her dammned rebel head off" because she wouldn't tell where her husband was. If this was changed from 1780 to 1940 and the actors to Germans it sounds more like the Nazi invasion of Russia. And this was only one relatively small troop of Legion and Loyalist Militia in a very short time span. Think of what else was going on....
Yes historically we know it was the British that captured the Enigma machine, not the Americans, but as I've seen on the History Channel you Brits barely give any credit to the Polish codebreakers who led the way in breaking the German codes. It's all the "British Codebreakers at Bletchly Park"..All countries movies bend history to the best light and to sell tickets.
I worked for 4 months on "The Patriot" and we all hoped it would be a good movie. It is a "good" movie.. but it is not history.
I remember one of the head wranger's horses getting caught in the nearby quick-sand and dying early in production. I too was turned away at the "casting call" because I was too old and fat. I was later called in because I had my own "kit" (musket, cartridge box, bayonet, haversack, pants and shoes and had access to horses.) I played a Continental Soldier, Continental Artillery, a Continental surgeon, and a Redcoat. I remember telling one of the "know-nothing about history" extras about how the real battle of Cowpens was fought and having him say .. "Wow, why didn't they do it like that?"
Cold mornings before dawn standing on the battlefield huddled around a fire made of cork from the special effects dept's explosions trying to stay warm until the fog lifted and the frost was off the grass to begin shooting. Being pi$$ed off at Mel for messing up scenes just joking around, or because he couldn't get the horse to do what he wanted. "Ok, back to 1!....again"
I remember watching that cut of the movie in the mess tent and cheering..and Mel was much much bloodier in that scene than in the finished product, didnt you think?
Ok I'm rambling here.. anyway .. I have fond memories of the movie..but that's all it was .. a movie..sorry that it upset the Brits....Lots of it was realistic a lot of it was Hollywood.
|
| 42ndOfficer |
Posted - November 12 2004 : 01:41:57 AM
One of the Tech.Advisors for the new PBS movie told me that they are using a lot of the weapons and uniforms from LOTM. |
| Grenouille |
Posted - November 05 2004 : 3:50:46 PM
When we filmed "The Patriot" the directors got some raw footage and showed it to the extras at the meal tent. The meal tent was a huge circus-like tent where the extras and crew ate their meals.
Anywho, one of the scenes they showed was Mel running through the woods with his rifle, on his way to ambush the Brits. My first thought was that it was just like the beginning of the "Last of the Mohicans." That's what my friend thought; standing in the back of the tent near the entrance. He said so, too, to some of his friends standing there, and he said when he turned around Mel G. was standing right in back of him!
Apparently, the directors wanted to get an audience idea of the footage they had, so far.
I won't forget having to wake up at 3:00 AM every morning to the sounds of "Sesame Street" and "Mr. Roger's Neighborhood" being played on the fife and drums. Having to walk over to makeup, and throwing cold, dirty water on my face every morning. I won't forget the looney Brits who lived down near the pond who caught and ate a water snake the first day in camp. By the time they left, they had empty water bottles purloined from the food tent scattered all around their tent, what a mess! I'll remember how we had to walk at least a couple miles everday out to
the film ste and walk back again. My poor, aching feet!
Also, a lot of the people who worked in "The Patriot" were also involved with the filming of LOM. The oriental guy who was in charge of the weapons dept. also worked in LOM. The assistant director worked in LOM, and some of the special effects and stunt men worked on LOM.
|
| Bookworm |
Posted - November 04 2004 : 9:47:35 PM
Coincidentally, the Nov./Dec. issue of Muzzleloader includes an advertisement for a book entitled "Nothing But Blood and Slaughter: The Revolutionary War in the Carolinas: Vol. One (1771-1779)," written by Patrick O'Kelley and published by Blue House Tavern Press, 709 Kramer Road, Lillington, NC 27546. The ad also gives a website: www.booklocker.com/books/1469.html
The title of the book is from a quote by General Nathanael Greene: "Nothing but blood and slaughter has prevailed among the Whigs and tories, and their inveteracy against each other must, if it continues, depopulate this part of the country." |
| Lt. General Darcy |
Posted - November 04 2004 : 1:27:52 PM
I agree with what Lonewolf it doesn't show the native americans at all, which it should of been! |
| 42ndNCO |
Posted - November 03 2004 : 12:12:38 PM
When the movie premiered in Pittsburgh, the Rev War group I was in at the time (the 8th Pennsylvania) went to 2 different theaters on the night it opened and "posted guard" outside the doors.
The theater managers were tickled to death to have us there to the point of letting us in and free snack bar stuff -- "anything these guys want, they can have" -- I believe was what the manager told his concession workers.
I think however, the best part was afterwards getting to talk with the other movie-goers about all the discrepancies in the film. Pointing out little oddities like using 24-pound naval carronades in the South Carolina swamps, etc.
Although we all have "stupid public" stories, I was generally impressed that many of those folks wanted to know what we thought about the film's accuracy. |
| Fitz Williams |
Posted - November 03 2004 : 08:30:32 AM
The Patriot could have been better, might have been a lot worse (read the original script)! But when it comes to the war in South Carolina, it's the best we have. When something better comes along, I will retire my DVD. |
| Jacy |
Posted - November 03 2004 : 03:13:50 AM
Yup, uhhuh. My point exactly.
:0 |
| 42ndOfficer |
Posted - November 02 2004 : 03:34:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Jacy
I agree that there may be a lot wrong with the Patriot. But just the way y'all have reacted says it all to me. It is a film-makers dream to provoke such reaction in their audience. Historical accuracy matters not when the crowd is drawn near.
Bums on seats luv.
English director in "The Dead Pool." 1988 |
| Jacy |
Posted - November 02 2004 : 03:17:04 AM
I agree that there may be a lot wrong with the Patriot. But just the way y'all have reacted says it all to me. It is a film-makers dream to provoke such reaction in their audience. Historical accuracy matters not when the crowd is drawn near.
|
| Grenouille |
Posted - November 02 2004 : 12:06:30 AM
Though the Patriot was filmed in S. Carolina where much of the southern conflict took place; it's just a coincidence. The real reason Columbia Pictures filmed there is because it is a "right to work state." More precisely, it is a state where unions have no control, and that's why the film company filmed there -- because they did not have to pay union scale wages to actors, workers, etc.,
etc. Many films are made in SC because of this fact.
|
| 42ndOfficer |
Posted - November 01 2004 : 10:23:37 PM
It is still out there that NorthWest Passage will be remade. |
| lonewolf |
Posted - November 01 2004 : 6:22:23 PM
Surely it doesn't cost as much to film here as in the Czech Republic. If they can't film the thing where it happened, I hope that they never complete it. |
| Two Kettles |
Posted - November 01 2004 : 4:01:51 PM
Grenouille wrote: "I heard rumors of a movie in the works about Ethan Allen and the Green Mountain Boys."
Just for the record, this movie was in preproduction a couple of years ago. The title was either THE REBEL or THE REBELS (NOT the John Jakes story.) It was going to star Jim Caviezal as Ethan Allen, and was going to be filmed in the Czech Republic. However, it apparently fell apart about the time Caviezal signed on to star in THE PASSION, and I think it's dead in the water.
Two Kettles |
| Fitz Williams |
Posted - November 01 2004 : 09:59:31 AM
At that particular event, Wemyss was in command. He generally commanded a portion of Tarleton's Legion, Loyalists (Tories) and Rangers he had raised from the local population. Wemyss, Tarleton, and Ferguson usually operated independently of each other. An example: When Wemyss learned that Sumter was camped on the Broad River, Wemyss went to Cornwallis with plans for an immediate attack. He led 40 of Tarleton's Legion and 100 mounted infantry. When the attack failed and Wemyss was captured, Cornwallis sent Tarleton to do what Wemyss had failed to do. Tarleton, in his turn, was soundly defeated at Blackstocks with 92 killed and 76 wounded. Ferguson was by this time dead. So it seems that Cornwallis used these commanders independently of each other. When Wemyss was captured he had on his person "a detailed list of the partisans he had executed and the homesteads he had destroyed". Sumter burned the list rather that let his men see it and hang Wemyss. |
| lonewolf |
Posted - October 31 2004 : 11:35:05 PM
When Mrs. Frierson and hey son were locked in the house and it set ablaze, was Banastre Tarleton present at this event, or is this an event credited to the British Army in the South in general. Please enlighten me with accurate facts. I realize that the British were extremely frustrated with their inability to defeat the Southern partisans, and it was really nasty down here. I also know that Tarleton was an officer, but certainly not "an officer and a gentleman".
Awaiting your reply. |
| lonewolf |
Posted - October 31 2004 : 11:21:46 PM
I went to the casting individual in Rock Hill, S.C. and offered my services for free. I even had my own accurate period native dress, and firearm. Not my pow-wow regalia. The casting director was so damned arrogant that I left. He acted as if no Native Americans participated in the Revolution. My Shawnee ancestors definitely participated. They killed my white 4x great grandfather in this war. I knew this movie was going to be one more "Hollywood" crappy version of history. As an historian, I was not pleased at the portrayal of the British, as all "bad guys". Remember, the Americans were overthrowing the established government. Today, it would be treasonous, and the Armerican Army would be sent to put down the rebellion, as it did in the American Civil War, when South Carolina decided to fire upon a government fort. Banastre Tarleton was a bit of a rotten person, but he never burned civilians in a church. As far as I am concerned, this movie was far from history, and was strictly for entertainment of those too lazy to study history. Sad thing is, most moviegoers probably thought that it was an accurate portrayal of the war.
Ninety percent fiction, ten percent fact. What a sham!
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