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The LIGHT IN THE FOREST

The Lion's Den ... International & Political Debate

Dutch Cabinet Collapsing???

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T O P I C R E V I E W
Bea	Posted - October 15 2002 : 4:36:34 PM Ilse, in one of the Royalty forums I visit I read the followwing message: Because the The populist Lijst Pim Fortuyn (LPF) which won 26 seats in the May elections is disintegrating. It is now one of the three parties in the government. It already split up into two groups, had several leaders, and now the (or some) MPs demands that the two ministers from LPF resign (none of the ministers were ever party-members, or rather they were both members of other parties when nominated). Oppion-polls show that the LPF would get 3 seats if elections were to be held today. How serious is the situation??? Another poster mentioned that the poor Queen ( who just buried her husband today) would have to announce the disintegration of the cabinet soon..This doesn't sound too good..
12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Bea	Posted - October 16 2002 : 7:42:14 PM Thank you so much for your hard work! It is much appreciated. quote: On Queen's Day this year we watched television in his room in the Amsterdam Medical Centre. The visit of the royal family to Hoogeveen and Meppel. The volume was down. There they are, he said, look at them! They are doing well. And there I stood, he pointed out, next to her. He beamed. In my younger years, he said, I didn't know who I actually belonged with; with Germany, with Africa. Then Holland too. But now I belong with Wow, this part above really brought tears to my eyes! What a man! it seems like Beatrix and Claus had a very special marriage and the boys were lucky to have a father like that! I hope they will follow his path and continue the work that was so dear to him!
Ilse	Posted - October 16 2002 : 7:07:21 PM Okidoki! First a disclaimer: he quotes heavily from the Old Testament. I do have the New Testament in English but not the Old Testament. I've translated as best I could, if it needs better more proper phrasing, please don't be shy about telling me. Here it is: ------------------- The reflection of Huub Oosterhuis "This born stranger raised on enemy soil next to sparkling sons, nephews choice beauties he shows his wounds speaks his words this poet without language this white black white older brother of millions this born king." Black as jet the light becomes -heavy the clouds hang- every slope too steep, ah olives you don't taste anymore; this is what happened to him. He said himself something about that in front of the cameras -that he didn't like very much- when he turned sixty. He called psychic depressions "the most terrible that can happen to a person". It showed on him, he knew that very well, but he could not hide it, he said, and he didn't want to. He quoted the German proverb "lies have short legs"; you can better tell the truth, out of respect for the people who sympathize with you. And out of solidarity with the people to whom it happens to as well. He knew himself to be one of many. On 15 May 1991 he spoke to the World Conference on International Development, he said: "There cannot be talk of a humane future that is worth to be lived if it does not rest on true international solidarity." Solidarity, he mentioned, at a time when it seemed like that word had been scratched from the Dutch language, like nobody could imagine anything in connection with it. He could. The liturgy of this funeral ceremony will consist mostly of bible quotations, short fragments of that splendid difficult jewish book that is the source of all nuances of Christian religion, and should be the standard measure. So is the tradition of churches: that they read and sing from the bible. And so this hour. Claus wasn't much of a church regular. The word "God" did not pass his lips. Every dogmatic certainty was alien to him. He had more questions than answers, like many non-church christians. He did not talk about possible religious experiences. He had mixed feelings about the lutheran church of his childhood. About the so-called Old Testament he only heard as an adult; officially that book didn't exist in the German third reich between 1933 and 1945. And that Jesus was a jew, was hidden by the churches, and not only there. In his later years, Claus sought contact with the missing book and got it - and he recognized the great biblical story. "In the beginning was the word", was read to us. What word was there in the beginning? Those who explore the jewish explanatory tradition of the bible will be told that in the beginning the thora was with God, even before he created heaven and earth. "Thora" means "word that directs people so that they will have lived a life that has been worth living". "In the beginning was the word" is not a philosophical statement but a prophetic voice that tells us that we will respect each other and we will treat each other humanely; have love for the human that is next to you. Love, not meant as a warm feeling but as practical solidarity; you will not let the other down, you will not let the other die or starve, be tortured, to be made to disappear. "Love the stranger" is the exacerbation of the word on the neighbours. Love the stranger that is equal to you, a human like you. The stranger is the neighbour pre-eminently; do not chase him down, do not chase her away, so it is written. They have the same rights as you. Without this thora there will be no human future that is worth being lived. "Light" is an image for that future, for a world "where people can live dignified". God spoke in the beginning: there be light. The word "God" easily passes our lips in church services. Do we know who we mean by that? We could agree that what we mean with "God" is the One, the one who
Bea	Posted - October 16 2002 : 5:50:56 PM Oh, I would really appreciate it of you could translate his speech for me..Here in NA were so far removed from all the European news..Sniff.. I'll e-mail you later...
Ilse	Posted - October 16 2002 : 4:31:16 PM Bea, I've been trying to find his speech, but I can't find it either on the 'net. There was a transcript in my newspaper though, I'll translate for you the best I can if you want. I was wrong by the way calling him Rev., he's actually a poet and ex-priest and a personal friend of the royal family. Edited by - Ilse on October 16 2002 4:32:49 PM
Bea	Posted - October 16 2002 : 4:11:57 PM Party??? Did you write party???Save some beer for me,yes??? :) You're probably right about the Queen: she is in no shape to cause 'trouble"..:(( She may be relieved but of course she has different things on her mind now. Where can one find Huub Oosterhuis' speech? I have only been able to see a sentence or two on the net..BTW we also have a pastor here in Edmonton by the name of Oosterhuis. Tom sometimes fills in for ours and he is excellent.
Ilse	Posted - October 16 2002 : 4:00:49 PM The BBC gives a rather nice overview of the last few months: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2334189.stm
Ilse	Posted - October 16 2002 : 3:48:07 PM quote: Thanks, Ilse. I saw quite a few pics in my royalty forum ( poor Queen Beatrix, heartbreaking to see her like this) Did you watch the funeral? Don't worry about my Dutch..I can understand quite a bit..hehehe Yes, I know I had to watch it over the internet (small screen), since it wasn't a national free day. So I watched it on and off. Unfortunately, I missed the replay of it too, because I had school in the evening. I thought it was quite a moving ceremony, though. I was especially impressed with the words from Rev. Huub Oosterhuis, who very skillfully managed to word a message that should be inspirational to the religious and none-religious in society alike. quote: I guess the cabinet just collpased!! Are you cheering Ilse, ? :) Bea, I've just finished decorating my house and inviting all my friends over for a liquor-drenched party In theory the Queen can still refuse this resignation and appoint a mediator, but somehow I think she won't right now..... So probably elections in December or January. Unbelievable, but due to the mess they created, Holland has since April of this year not been properly governed! Duh!
Bea	Posted - October 16 2002 : 12:50:22 PM I guess the cabinet just collpased!! Are you cheering Ilse, ? :) I even found a link in English! http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,65816,00.html
Bea	Posted - October 16 2002 : 10:03:12 AM Thanks, Ilse. I saw quite a few pics in my royalty forum ( poor Queen Beatrix, heartbreaking to see her like this) Did you watch the funeral? Don't worry about my Dutch..I can understand quite a bit..hehehe
Ilse	Posted - October 16 2002 : 05:58:16 AM Bea, Since you are actively interested in royalty you can find pictures, video and audio from the funeral of Prince Claus on the following site: http://www2.omroep.nl/nos/breakingnews/index_4.html?paginas/begrafenis.html~output It's all in Dutch, though. Ilse
Bea	Posted - October 15 2002 : 7:08:47 PM Okay, now that I have more info, I am relieved..Too bad I don't get any European TV channels. I need entertainment..:):) And yes, it was quite obvious why LPF won..Eventually they will crawl under their rock again..
Ilse	Posted - October 15 2002 : 6:40:53 PM quote: This doesn't sound too good.. Quite the contrary, Bea; it's music to my ears There are two major problems in the current coalition government right now. One is the continued infighting in the LPF which started immediately after the elections in May. They're shameless, uncontrollable and uncivilized as far as I am concerned. This makes for pretty good television entertainment and in itself can cause the collapse of the coalition. The second one is a bit more important though, and that is that the coalition has fallen out on the matter of the expansion of the EU. A majority of this coalition government, which has so far been unable to come up with anything remotely resembling a foreign policy, seems to be against that. As the only EU-member. If this smallmindedness continues the Netherlands will be totally isolated in the EU. If they can't find some sort of compromise in this, the coalition will collapse, no doubt about it. As for me, I've hated this rightwing government from the start, so I am having a hell of a good time right now. Let it fall, let it fall. New elections please! It will probably not bring my social-democrats back in power; but hey! Some people might be reminded that elections are not to be mistaken for signing a book of condolences anyway. Three seats is too good for them. I want them all out and back under that rock they came from. Yep, it does sound good to me

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