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The Lion's Den ... International & Political Debate

Christopher Columbus "Controversy" Continues

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[quote][i]Originally posted by richfed[/i]
[br]Yes, yesterday was Columbus Day ... or is it tomorrow? Or both?

Anyway, I received this from an old "nemesis" of mine who took issue with a post, or two, I made a couple of years ago on why I think that in today's PC climate [do I detect, [i]maybe[/i], a decline in that "political" agenda?] I feel Columbus takes a bad rap. Here it is, without further ado. Feel free to comment!

[quote]how are you doing? And how is your secretary?

Sorry for my last two e-mails a while ago (one or two years ago). I 
have refrained from dogmatism. History after all, allows for multitude 
of opinions.

Meanwhile, I have a question. Right now, I am engaged in a life time 
study on Columbus---its my expertise. I have read your comments, Samuel 
Morison's views, Washington Irvings and others. As a matter of fact, I 
have recently found out about an original book about Columbus by 
Fernando. I think it is titled "Columbus, the apostle to the Indians".

If I were to write about stating my interpretation about the man, 
saying that he was jerked around by his men, triggering wreckless 
fights with Natives but not "genocidal", how would that past muster?

You may not agree but saying that the Admiral failures were more 
of "ignorance" rather deliberate extermination as you have with Hitler, 
puts him in between Saints and Hitler, what would your criticisms be?

You don't have to agree. And I don't claim to have "all" the answers. 
But I feel to strong to say that Indigenous Peoples day should replace 
Columbus day. What about having both? (Of course, I operate under the 
assumption that he wasn't as extreme Hitler or Stalin though 
shortsighted at times).

I feel that he may have been a slave trader but only of the Carib 
Natives. And that Taino's slave trade and African slave trade came 
after his time.

It seems like we have similar data in front of us but taken from 
different approaches or filter. My filter is that he acted on his own 
and shouldn't take full responsibilty for his men or even be blamed for 
five centuries of Imperialism. On the otherhand, you see that if he 
introduced slavery into the New World, then he must of initiated it.

Well, your comments are greatly appreciated. I just feel that going to 
war over acts of brutal is appropiate (admittedly including acts of 
genocide) but yet only one things. However, heaping everything on 
Columbus seems a bit "extreme" since both sides credit him for to much.
The other extreme "God bless America" doesn't quite impress me either. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
[/quote]

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T O P I C R E V I E W
richfed	Posted - October 13 2002 : 07:44:39 AM Yes, yesterday was Columbus Day ... or is it tomorrow? Or both? Anyway, I received this from an old "nemesis" of mine who took issue with a post, or two, I made a couple of years ago on why I think that in today's PC climate [do I detect, maybe, a decline in that "political" agenda?] I feel Columbus takes a bad rap. Here it is, without further ado. Feel free to comment! quote: how are you doing? And how is your secretary? Sorry for my last two e-mails a while ago (one or two years ago). I have refrained from dogmatism. History after all, allows for multitude of opinions. Meanwhile, I have a question. Right now, I am engaged in a life time study on Columbus---its my expertise. I have read your comments, Samuel Morison's views, Washington Irvings and others. As a matter of fact, I have recently found out about an original book about Columbus by Fernando. I think it is titled "Columbus, the apostle to the Indians". If I were to write about stating my interpretation about the man, saying that he was jerked around by his men, triggering wreckless fights with Natives but not "genocidal", how would that past muster? You may not agree but saying that the Admiral failures were more of "ignorance" rather deliberate extermination as you have with Hitler, puts him in between Saints and Hitler, what would your criticisms be? You don't have to agree. And I don't claim to have "all" the answers. But I feel to strong to say that Indigenous Peoples day should replace Columbus day. What about having both? (Of course, I operate under the assumption that he wasn't as extreme Hitler or Stalin though shortsighted at times). I feel that he may have been a slave trader but only of the Carib Natives. And that Taino's slave trade and African slave trade came after his time. It seems like we have similar data in front of us but taken from different approaches or filter. My filter is that he acted on his own and shouldn't take full responsibilty for his men or even be blamed for five centuries of Imperialism. On the otherhand, you see that if he introduced slavery into the New World, then he must of initiated it. Well, your comments are greatly appreciated. I just feel that going to war over acts of brutal is appropiate (admittedly including acts of genocide) but yet only one things. However, heaping everything on Columbus seems a bit "extreme" since both sides credit him for to much. The other extreme "God bless America" doesn't quite impress me either.
9 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Edmund McKinnon	Posted - October 23 2002 : 02:14:40 AM I agree with Rich(we cumps have to stick together).There is nothing to show that Columbus was "genocidal".He did not command armies,nor did he rule.He was an explorer.The Spaniards were a godsend anyhow.Otherwise the natives would still be running around in the woods and eating each other.If you want to talk genocide,look to Josef StalinTwenty million ChristiansEM Capt.John Graham Cmdr.42nd Highlanders
SgtMunro	Posted - October 22 2002 : 08:56:09 AM In which case, take two hearts, its always a long journey. A classic combination of educated wit and style, you're alright Scott. Sgt. Duncan Munro Capt. Graham's Coy 1/42nd Royal Highlanders "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
Scott Bubar	Posted - October 22 2002 : 07:07:24 AM On another forum, Magua is my avatar. ~~Aim small, miss small.
SgtMunro	Posted - October 21 2002 : 4:08:31 PM Ah, yes, it wasn't until I was back in the crusier that I realized your pun. Then I couldn't stop laughing at both your pun, as well as my slow uptake on it. Good Show, Laddie!!!! Your Humble Servant, Sgt. Duncan Munro Capt. Graham's Coy 1/42nd Royal Highlanders "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
Scott Bubar	Posted - October 21 2002 : 07:09:45 AM No, I mean really, have a heart. ~~Aim small, miss small.
SgtMunro	Posted - October 20 2002 : 10:55:40 PM I do, but I never allow that to stand in the way of the truth. For to do so would compromise something very important to me, my integrity. Sgt. Duncan Munro Capt. Graham's Coy 1/42nd Royal Highlanders "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
Scott Bubar	Posted - October 19 2002 : 4:19:04 PM Oh, have a heart, Sergeant. ;) ~~Aim small, miss small.
SgtMunro	Posted - October 19 2002 : 08:12:24 AM I agree gentlemen, Mr. Columbus does take a great deal of unecessary 'heat'. One of the most worn out statements from the native apologists is that the peoples of Central & South America were this peaceful, civilised race of innocents until those nasty white Europeans came with their Christianity. Well lets see, I do seem to recall that human sacrafice was a regular event in those communities (to some sort of "sun god" or something), which involved ripping the beating heart out of a young innocents chest and then shoving the body (like so much as garbage) down the steps of the pyramid. I also understand that they too engaged in large scale warfare with their neighboors (one theroy that the Mayans were completely wiped out by the Aztecs almost 500 years before the first Spainard arrives). I think if anything, the quality of life certainly did not depriciate with the European arrival. Your Humble Author, Sgt. Duncan Munro Capt. Graham's Coy 1/42nd Royal Highlanders "Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
Scott Bubar	Posted - October 13 2002 : 3:25:50 PM Well... People do seem to get a bit excited about this issue: About all I can say at the moment is: God Bless America! ~~Aim small, miss small.

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