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Stubbing out? Not if I can help it

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		$computer woes {CW:_(}$

[quote][i]Originally posted by Adele[/i]
[br][green][font=Comic Sans MS]Stubbing out? Not if I can help it
(Filed: 28/11/2003)

Musician Joe Jackson fled New York to escape the stringent anti-smoking laws, only to find a similar threat looming in London Friday night in the city. I go to a night club party promoted by my friends Mimi and James, whose past parties are legendary. But the crowd is sparse and the mood subdued. The local economy is bad, but that's not the only problem.

For instance, no one is dancing: it's illegal. This venue doesn't have the appropriate expensive, hard-to-obtain licence. We all have stories: the bar that was busted for letting one couple smooch to the jukebox; the Swing dance class that was closed down; even the downtown nightclub that was heavily fined after an evening of Jewish klezmer music when the 70-something crowd was seen swaying.

But what's this crowd of people doing outside the club? Not dancing; they're smoking.

Thanks to a new law, it's illegal to smoke inside. It's also illegal to drink outside. So: smoke between drinks, or leave your drink inside and hope it's still there when you get back. Either way, a whole separate party is developing out on the street. Not a terribly festive party, though. Everyone is snarling about how the current mayor is even worse than the last one, the one who started this business- and tourist-friendly Disneyfication of the city, driving the creative, "bohemian" element out, even closing down the topless bars.

Non-smokers start trickling outside, too, and Judy the bartender takes her five-minute cigarette break. The ban is supposed to protect her health, but she says she'd rather not have to be a cop enforcing it, thanks very much, and for fewer tips, at that. And every so often, one of the promoters has to run outside to tell the smokers that something important is happening inside. Oh yes, and to remind them to keep the noise down. The club can be fined for that, too.

The city, of course, is New York, the city I fell in love with when it was a boil on the bum of Reagan's America: dirtier, but much more fun. I've mostly based myself there ever since, but this year I came back to live full-time in England. My disillusionment has more to do with President Bush than Mayor Bloomberg, but the last straw - the thing that had me finally packing my bags in utter disgust - was the smoking ban. Imagine my dismay on hearing that the Smoke Police are pushing for a similar ban in Britain.

Such a ban would be a bigger disaster here than it is in New York, Bloomberg's "We love smoke-free NY!" propaganda notwithstanding. Manhattan still has a kind of steely glamour that London may never quite match, but London - for all its problems - is more sociable, and its nightlife these days freer, friendlier, and somehow more grown-up. It's moving in the right direction, too, with the ridiculous licensing laws about to change. Meanwhile, New York is considering closing its bars and clubs earlier - partly to get those pesky crowds of smokers off the streets.

I'm a moderate smoker myself; I enjoy a couple of cigarettes or a cigar with a drink. But I'm also a health-conscious person and, over the past few years, I've done extensive research into all sides of the smoking issue. I've concluded that smoking is risky, but not as dangerous as zealous officials and antismoking activists would have us believe. More to the point, I'm convinced (as are many reputable scientists) that the danger of "passive smoking" is pretty much a hoax, with dodgy statistics manipulated and exaggerated with the express intention of stigmatising smokers and scaring the hell out of everyone.

In my own forays into the wacky world of statistics I've discovered that, for instance, you're more likely to die in a bicycle accident, or as a result of being left-handed and using right-handed things, than you are from passive smoking. But health officials routinely bury any evidence they don't like and cook th
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T O P I C R E V I E W
Adele	Posted - November 29 2003 : 11:48:12 AM Stubbing out? Not if I can help it (Filed: 28/11/2003) Musician Joe Jackson fled New York to escape the stringent anti-smoking laws, only to find a similar threat looming in London Friday night in the city. I go to a night club party promoted by my friends Mimi and James, whose past parties are legendary. But the crowd is sparse and the mood subdued. The local economy is bad, but that's not the only problem. For instance, no one is dancing: it's illegal. This venue doesn't have the appropriate expensive, hard-to-obtain licence. We all have stories: the bar that was busted for letting one couple smooch to the jukebox; the Swing dance class that was closed down; even the downtown nightclub that was heavily fined after an evening of Jewish klezmer music when the 70-something crowd was seen swaying. But what's this crowd of people doing outside the club? Not dancing; they're smoking. Thanks to a new law, it's illegal to smoke inside. It's also illegal to drink outside. So: smoke between drinks, or leave your drink inside and hope it's still there when you get back. Either way, a whole separate party is developing out on the street. Not a terribly festive party, though. Everyone is snarling about how the current mayor is even worse than the last one, the one who started this business- and tourist-friendly Disneyfication of the city, driving the creative, "bohemian" element out, even closing down the topless bars. Non-smokers start trickling outside, too, and Judy the bartender takes her five-minute cigarette break. The ban is supposed to protect her health, but she says she'd rather not have to be a cop enforcing it, thanks very much, and for fewer tips, at that. And every so often, one of the promoters has to run outside to tell the smokers that something important is happening inside. Oh yes, and to remind them to keep the noise down. The club can be fined for that, too. The city, of course, is New York, the city I fell in love with when it was a boil on the bum of Reagan's America: dirtier, but much more fun. I've mostly based myself there ever since, but this year I came back to live full-time in England. My disillusionment has more to do with President Bush than Mayor Bloomberg, but the last straw - the thing that had me finally packing my bags in utter disgust - was the smoking ban. Imagine my dismay on hearing that the Smoke Police are pushing for a similar ban in Britain. Such a ban would be a bigger disaster here than it is in New York, Bloomberg's "We love smoke-free NY!" propaganda notwithstanding. Manhattan still has a kind of steely glamour that London may never quite match, but London - for all its problems - is more sociable, and its nightlife these days freer, friendlier, and somehow more grown-up. It's moving in the right direction, too, with the ridiculous licensing laws about to change. Meanwhile, New York is considering closing its bars and clubs earlier - partly to get those pesky crowds of smokers off the streets. I'm a moderate smoker myself; I enjoy a couple of cigarettes or a cigar with a drink. But I'm also a health-conscious person and, over the past few years, I've done extensive research into all sides of the smoking issue. I've concluded that smoking is risky, but not as dangerous as zealous officials and antismoking activists would have us believe. More to the point, I'm convinced (as are many reputable scientists) that the danger of "passive smoking" is pretty much a hoax, with dodgy statistics manipulated and exaggerated with the express intention of stigmatising smokers and scaring the hell out of everyone. In my own forays into the wacky world of statistics I've discovered that, for instance, you're more likely to die in a bicycle accident, or as a result of being left-handed and using right-handed things, than you are from passive smoking. But health officials routinely bury any evidence they don't like and cook th
4 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
Ilse	Posted - December 01 2003 : 6:40:12 PM Oh well
Adele	Posted - December 01 2003 : 3:43:49 PM quote: Originally posted by Ilse This is going on in Holland too. And it's creating quite an ironic story. As of January 1 2004 all public places are supposed to be smoke-free, excepting the hotel/restaurant/cafe branche. As you know, we have the "coffee shops", which actually do sell coffee, but also softdrugs of a great variety. What they don't sell is alcohol, and therefore they are not part of the branche mentioned above. The consequence of this law is: you can purchase your pot in there, but you can't smoke it there, because, gee, employees there are entitled to a smoke-free environment. So much for that infamous permissive society, eh Ilse?! HM
Ilse	Posted - November 30 2003 : 4:36:46 PM This is going on in Holland too. And it's creating quite an ironic story. As of January 1 2004 all public places are supposed to be smoke-free, excepting the hotel/restaurant/cafe branche. As you know, we have the "coffee shops", which actually do sell coffee, but also softdrugs of a great variety. What they don't sell is alcohol, and therefore they are not part of the branche mentioned above. The consequence of this law is: you can purchase your pot in there, but you can't smoke it there, because, gee, employees there are entitled to a smoke-free environment.
SgtMunro	Posted - November 29 2003 : 11:18:24 PM Adele, I agree with you, the world was a much more fun place to be when there were not as many people concerned with everyone’s well being. I remember the big ‘bru-hah-hah’ during Desert Shield just because RJ Reynolds and Philip Morris wanted to send us troops free cartons of cigarettes. The anti-smoking nazis went ballistic, and their co-conspirators in the media flooded the airwaves alerting America to such a horrible act from ‘Big Tobacco’. When the little busy-bodies got their way, and the shipments were stopped, the thing I remember telling my squadmates was “Geez!! I hope to live long enough for a Marlboro to kill me!” Here we were, on the Saudi-Iraq border, awaiting a possible invasion by over a million enemy soldiers (where unofficial estimates stated that our position could only be held for 60 minutes with 75% casualties), and some panty-waist 5000 miles away was so concerned about a cigarette affecting my health! I always like to look at my grandparents’ generation for how things should be. Those folks worked hard, smoked like factories, drank like frat-boys, ate fried foods, ate red meat, and do you know what? They were HAPPY!!!!!!! Somewhere along the line the ol’ gene pool got a wee bit shallow, just my thoughts on it… Your Most Humble Servant,

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