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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Adele |
Posted - November 29 2003 : 11:44:55 AM
'Caucasian Club' pupil quits
By Oliver Poole in Oakley
(Filed: 29/11/2003)
A white Californian girl has been forced to leave her school after being threatened with violence for setting up a "Caucasian Club" that she had intended as a forum for debating racial insensitivity.
Lisa McClelland, 15, established the new body in September as a whites version of the Black Student Union, Latinos Unidos, and the Aloha Club for Pacific islanders.
She has now switched to another school district after being ostracised by many of her peers at Freedom High School in Oakley.
She was called a "white racist", a "fat, white neo-Nazi" and "KKK girl". Gangs of girls threatened to beat her up and a teacher told her in front of a class that he would rather see her "drugged out and pregnant" than on the news talking about her new club.
Miss McClelland, who said the club was for students to discuss how their "whiteness" affected other ethnic groups, said: "It wasn't supposed to be a big deal.
(Source: www.telegraph.co.uk) |
| 21 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| SgtMunro |
Posted - December 12 2003 : 2:40:05 PM
quote:
Yeah... my computer calls me a "slave" everytime it boots up!
Don't feel bad WW, all machines treat me like that. There are some days I feel like taking a hammer to my 'idiot box', just call me Sparticus...
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
| Adele |
Posted - December 06 2003 : 12:34:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Bubar
I'm just glad that those racist electronics firms are finally being reined in:
quote:
Subject: IDENTIFICATION OF EQUIPMENT SOLD TO LA COUNTY
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:21:16 -0800
From: "Los Angeles County"
The County of Los Angeles actively promotes and is committed to ensure a work environment that is free from any discriminatory influence be it actual or perceived. As such, it is the County's expectation that our manufacturers, suppliers and contractors make a concentrated effort to ensure that any equipment, supplies or services that are provided to County departments do not possess or portray an image that may be construed as offensive or defamatory in nature.
One such recent example included the manufacturer's labeling of equipment where the words "Master/Slave" appeared to identify the primary and secondary sources. Based on the cultural diversity and sensitivity of Los Angeles County, this is not an acceptable identification label.
We would request that each manufacturer, supplier and contractor review, identify and remove/change any identification or labeling of equipment or components thereof that could be interpreted as discriminatory or offensive in nature before such equipment is sold or otherwise provided to any County department.
Thank you in advance for your cooperation and assistance.
Joe Sandoval, Division Manager
Purchasing and Contract Services
Internal Services Department
County of Los Angeles
I think now I can die happy....because I believe I just heard it ALL!!!!
HM |
| Wilderness Woman |
Posted - December 06 2003 : 10:20:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Scott Bubar
One such recent example included the manufacturer's labeling of equipment where the words "Master/Slave" appeared to identify the primary and secondary sources.
Yeah... my computer calls me a "slave" everytime it boots up! And I'm sick and tired of it! That computer ain't my master, and I sure ain't nobody's d**n slave! Clear it up any?
All joking aside, I think we all agree that this whole "political correctness" issue has gone way beyond the bounds of reason?
Adele, I appreciate your comments. Your point is very well taken, and that "perfect world" would be great, wouldn't it?
|
| Scott Bubar |
Posted - December 06 2003 : 08:59:13 AM
I'm just glad that those racist electronics firms are finally being reined in:
quote:
Subject: IDENTIFICATION OF EQUIPMENT SOLD TO LA COUNTY
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:21:16 -0800
From: "Los Angeles County"
The County of Los Angeles actively promotes and is committed to ensure a work environment that is free from any discriminatory influence be it actual or perceived. As such, it is the County's expectation that our manufacturers, suppliers and contractors make a concentrated effort to ensure that any equipment, supplies or services that are provided to County departments do not possess or portray an image that may be construed as offensive or defamatory in nature.
One such recent example included the manufacturer's labeling of equipment where the words "Master/Slave" appeared to identify the primary and secondary sources. Based on the cultural diversity and sensitivity of Los Angeles County, this is not an acceptable identification label.
We would request that each manufacturer, supplier and contractor review, identify and remove/change any identification or labeling of equipment or components thereof that could be interpreted as discriminatory or offensive in nature before such equipment is sold or otherwise provided to any County department.
Thank you in advance for your cooperation and assistance.
Joe Sandoval, Division Manager
Purchasing and Contract Services
Internal Services Department
County of Los Angeles
|
| SgtMunro |
Posted - December 06 2003 : 08:09:57 AM
quote:
I have to agree Sgt...I am in favour of an enforced civil duty for young people, whether it be in the form of a military draft or a community service.
You're right, Adele. I was just using the military example based on my own life experiences. Any form of community service would be a suitable substitute, as long as it works on developing 'team-skills'. The main point of my statement was that the concept of 'tolerance' (for lack of a better word) is something that must be developed, not forced on young folks and dividing people into 'ethnic clubs' is counter-productive to that end.
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
| Adele |
Posted - December 06 2003 : 04:51:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Wilderness Woman
quote:
Originally posted by Adele
In response to WW's post, much as I understand the Americans' interest in their heritage, I have never understood their need to prefix their nationality with their place of origin. To state one's nationality does not mean to deny one's roots, they are not mutually exclusive.
I agree with you to a point, Adele, and I do hope that you understood the intended sarcasm of my post. I was rather irreverently poking fun at this very tendency. Of course, I would not go around saying that I am a German-English-etc.-etc-American. All of those places of origin go much too far back in my blood lines. I am simply an American, who's skin happens to be white.
I hope that I will not be stepping on any toes with my next statement, and I am certainly not, in any way, shape or form, making a racist remark. Far from it. But, for someone who's ancestors were brought from Africa around 150 - 200 years ago to be calling themselves African-American is stretching it a bit. To me, they are simply fellow, and equal, Americans whose skin happens to be dark brown or "black."
It does, however, seem appropriate to me for an American citizen who has immigrated to America from their country of birth (or even if their parents were the immigrants) to call themselves Greek-American, or Italian-American, or Japanese-American, or whatever. This makes far more sense to me, because the blood of their country of origin flows in their veins. But this should fade away as the immigrant generation recedes farther into the past.
Does this make sense?
Yes it does make sense, and yes I understood your sarcasam. However, I am not sure I agree with your subsequent comment. Roots are roots, and I think the only difference that time makes, is to ease integration, in terms of language, accent, and cultural understanding. The point is, that people can't seem to differentiate between ethnic origin, and nationality. If I were to emigrate to another country, and want to be a part of that country, and assume the nationality, why would I persist in isolating myself from my fellow countrymen by prefixing my new nationality with my old one?
By encouraging the continuation of this need to identify origin with nationality, the nationality itself is devalued. And where will it end? Will we end up with religious prefixes? Or gender prefixes? A Christian-Male-Latin-American? Nationality is not one's identity, it is the place one lives, and if you live in a free country, it should have little bearing on your cultural/ethnic/religious background. In an ideal world, of course! 
HM |
| Wilderness Woman |
Posted - December 05 2003 : 10:24:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Adele
In response to WW's post, much as I understand the Americans' interest in their heritage, I have never understood their need to prefix their nationality with their place of origin. To state one's nationality does not mean to deny one's roots, they are not mutually exclusive.
I agree with you to a point, Adele, and I do hope that you understood the intended sarcasm of my post. I was rather irreverently poking fun at this very tendency. Of course, I would not go around saying that I am a German-English-etc.-etc-American. All of those places of origin go much too far back in my blood lines. I am simply an American, who's skin happens to be white.
I hope that I will not be stepping on any toes with my next statement, and I am certainly not, in any way, shape or form, making a racist remark. Far from it. But, for someone who's ancestors were brought from Africa around 150 - 200 years ago to be calling themselves African-American is stretching it a bit. To me, they are simply fellow, and equal, Americans whose skin happens to be dark brown or "black."
It does, however, seem appropriate to me for an American citizen who has immigrated to America from their country of birth (or even if their parents were the immigrants) to call themselves Greek-American, or Italian-American, or Japanese-American, or whatever. This makes far more sense to me, because the blood of their country of origin flows in their veins. But this should fade away as the immigrant generation recedes farther into the past.
Does this make sense? |
| Adele |
Posted - December 05 2003 : 1:43:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SgtMunro
The whole 'Ethnic Diversity' thing is childish and counter-productive, wherever it rears its ugly head. As I have said before, when filling out my U.S. Census, under 'Ethnic Group' I always check 'Other' and write 'American' on the line. Americans come in all shapes, sizes and flavors. We are a people brought together by the idea that freedom IS the solution for the human condition. Now, sometimes we get off track a bit, but you get nowhere when you start dividng folks into groups. It is bigoted and the product of deranged minds.
It is my humble opinion that the draft, after the military was desegregated, did more for the Civil Rights movement, than any of the 'diversity' BS peddled on college campus today. It taught young men that it was what you do, not where you're from, that counts. You learned to depend on the guy next to you; regardless of race, creed or color, because your life was in his hands and vice versa. Just my thoughts on the subject...
Your Most Humble Servant,
I have to agree Sgt...I am in favour of an enforced civil duty for young people, whether it be in the form of a military draft or a community service. Not to sway too much off topic here, but a lot of 18-year-olds in the UK take a 'gap year' before going to college or university for the purpose of travelling or work experience, and most of them consider it an invaluable time in their lives. A year after school dedicated to a service to others, particularly one which would enable the mix of different backgrounds, races and religions would be a very worthwhile endeavour.
In response to WW's post, much as I understand the Americans' interest in their heritage, I have never understood their need to prefix their nationality with their place of origin. To state one's nationality does not mean to deny one's roots, they are not mutually exclusive.
HM |
| securemann |
Posted - December 04 2003 : 5:24:45 PM
GOOD POST SGT. |
| SgtMunro |
Posted - December 04 2003 : 4:13:18 PM
The whole 'Ethnic Diversity' thing is childish and counter-productive, wherever it rears its ugly head. As I have said before, when filling out my U.S. Census, under 'Ethnic Group' I always check 'Other' and write 'American' on the line. Americans come in all shapes, sizes and flavors. We are a people brought together by the idea that freedom IS the solution for the human condition. Now, sometimes we get off track a bit, but you get nowhere when you start dividng folks into groups. It is bigoted and the product of deranged minds.
It is my humble opinion that the draft, after the military was desegregated, did more for the Civil Rights movement, than any of the 'diversity' BS peddled on college campus today. It taught young men that it was what you do, not where you're from, that counts. You learned to depend on the guy next to you; regardless of race, creed or color, because your life was in his hands and vice versa. Just my thoughts on the subject...
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
| securemann |
Posted - December 04 2003 : 3:54:45 PM
Hey,did anybody ever hear of the Gottscheer Club in Ridgewood,Queens,N.Y.? Ya'll probably saying to yourselves what in Sam Hill is a Gottscheer! Just another ethnic struggle that involves my blood.They have clubs here in the U.S. and the old country.I think Canada too.They are bringing up old Balkan animosities from WWII.I don't have time for that ethnic nonsense because I am a child of God and a citizen of the World. |
| Christina |
Posted - December 04 2003 : 2:51:40 PM
Points VERY well taken Theresa and Adele!
Here's an example, however, of media trying to be TOO politically correct by not referring to people's ethnicity. About five years ago the paper I worked for on the coast of S.C. decided, to avoid stereotyping of any kind, not to mention anybody's race in ANY circumstances, including when describing the suspects in a crime. Consequently, writing police briefs became very dodgy. We were unable to tell the public whether the rapist was a white man with a tattoo of a snake on his head or whether the mugger to watch out for on Ocean Boulevard was a black guy in a green jacket. This resulted, of course, in members of the public calling with things like "You said to look out for a suspicious man in a green jacket. I see five of them on this block right now. Is the guy I'm looking for black, white or Latino? Help!"
 Eventually, this wave of hyper political-correctness went by the way side and we were once again able to use race in descriptions as long as there were other good descriptions. Case in point, you couldn't just say "Police are looking for a white guy with brown hair," it had to be something like "The suspect is white, with brown hair, wearing a red down coat and with a tattoo of a snake on his head..."
Race and ethnicity are such difficult topics to deal with. And it's so hard to avoid going TOO far to one side or the other. Oh, the continuing challenges of life...
Christina
quote:
Originally posted by Adele
quote:
Originally posted by Theresa
This has nothing to do will ethnic organizations but we could all learn a lesson from it.
If you live anywhere in the south and follow SEC football, you know that Sylvester Croom was named as head coach at Mississippi State University. Coach Croom is a class act. He has been an assistant coach for the Green Bay Packers for the past many years. He played football for Bear Bryant at the University of Alabama. When the coaching position came open at UA last year, he was one of the candidates. After interviews and such, UA hired Mike Shula over Sylvester Croom. Jesse Jackson took it upon himself to get involved  ...it was a mess.
All this week we've heard nothing from the media (sorry Christina) but "the first black head football coach in the SEC" was named at MSU. Well DUH! In his press conference yesterday, Coach Croom pointed out that he was a football coach that just happened to be African American and that the only color that mattered was maroon (MSU's school color).  He will do well at MSU and the Alabama Nation wishes him well...afterall, he is one of our own.
The media has hyped this up so much. A newspaper in Chicago had an article about it stating, yet again, "the first black head football coach in the SEC" and stated that he was passed over at UA for Mike Shula "who is white". Well, DUH! again.
I believe that we in the South have come a long way where race relations is concerned...not to say there isn't work still to be done on that front. And while hiring Sylvester Croom at MSU is historic, we should listen to the man and I can assure you he will not play the race card. Good luck Coach Croom....until November 6 when you come to Tuscaloosa.
Your point is well made Theresa and absolutely relevant. And another pet peeve of mine! I often note how often a news broadcast refers to a black youth who mugged an old lady, or asian man accused of murder, but when the criminal in question is white, this is often left to the viewer or listener to assume. When Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minister, he |
| Wilderness Woman |
Posted - December 04 2003 : 2:39:23 PM
Adele wrote:quote:
I think that part of the problem is that being caucasian is not seen as being a part of a particular ethnic group.
Well. I have what I think might just be the solution (she mumbled with difficulty due to tongue placed firmly into cheek) to this whole thing. Those of us who are, er... not African-American, or not Asian-American, or not Native American should tack our own ethnicity in front of American.
So, that would make me... are you ready?... German-English-Irish-Scottish-Dutch-French-American. Maybe that school in California would let me start a club?
We have come a long way, but will we ever come to the point when it is all, as Adele said, irrelevant? I hope so.
Ohmigod! Did I just post in the dreaded Lion's Den?
Aaaarrrggghhhh........ |
| Fitz Williams |
Posted - December 04 2003 : 11:57:29 AM
quote:
Caucasian Club
Hummmm... I looked on Google.com and found that Caucasian referred to someone from the Caucasus region of Azerbaijan, etc. Seems ethnic enough to me! What if a group of persons, of, say, Russian descent, got together and formed a Caucasian Club? Definitely a minority organization made up of persons of Asian descent. Should be OK. And would not their right to assembly be protected by the Consitiution? And if someone did anything to them, would that not be classified as a "hate crime"? And would not this fall under the various Civil Rights acts, because it is a minority and based on an ethnic group?
And then what about Mohicans? Hummmmm...
|
| Theresa |
Posted - December 04 2003 : 07:26:46 AM
Exactly, Adele. And in Coach Croom's case, they hired the best man for the job...period. As I said, it is historic and the media certainly reminded us of that, but this man was hired due to his credentials. Why he was passed over for Mike Shula at UA, I don't know (and as many know here, I'm glad we have Mike..woohoo!). I'm afraid because of the media hype, it could put unnecessary pressure on Coach Croom to win. I can assure you, once football season kicks off again in the fall, he'll be under the microscope, once again due to his skin color. |
| Adele |
Posted - December 04 2003 : 02:04:42 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Theresa
This has nothing to do will ethnic organizations but we could all learn a lesson from it.
If you live anywhere in the south and follow SEC football, you know that Sylvester Croom was named as head coach at Mississippi State University. Coach Croom is a class act. He has been an assistant coach for the Green Bay Packers for the past many years. He played football for Bear Bryant at the University of Alabama. When the coaching position came open at UA last year, he was one of the candidates. After interviews and such, UA hired Mike Shula over Sylvester Croom. Jesse Jackson took it upon himself to get involved ...it was a mess.
All this week we've heard nothing from the media (sorry Christina) but "the first black head football coach in the SEC" was named at MSU. Well DUH! In his press conference yesterday, Coach Croom pointed out that he was a football coach that just happened to be African American and that the only color that mattered was maroon (MSU's school color). He will do well at MSU and the Alabama Nation wishes him well...afterall, he is one of our own.
The media has hyped this up so much. A newspaper in Chicago had an article about it stating, yet again, "the first black head football coach in the SEC" and stated that he was passed over at UA for Mike Shula "who is white". Well, DUH! again.
I believe that we in the South have come a long way where race relations is concerned...not to say there isn't work still to be done on that front. And while hiring Sylvester Croom at MSU is historic, we should listen to the man and I can assure you he will not play the race card. Good luck Coach Croom....until November 6 when you come to Tuscaloosa.
Your point is well made Theresa and absolutely relevant. And another pet peeve of mine! I often note how often a news broadcast refers to a black youth who mugged an old lady, or asian man accused of murder, but when the criminal in question is white, this is often left to the viewer or listener to assume. When Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minister, her gender was constantly referred to. It is irrelevant.
I was thinking about the Caucasian Club story again this week, and I think that part of the problem is that being caucasian is not seen as being a part of a particular ethnic group. If the young lady in question had set up a group for 'Scandinavian-Americans', the membership would have been, in all likelihood, all white, and nobody would have batted an eyelid, because it would have been about heritage not colour. Unfortunately, the word 'white' no longer refers to the colour of your skin, having been used for organisations such as White Power, it now carries very strong racist overtones.
HM |
| Theresa |
Posted - December 03 2003 : 9:06:04 PM
This has nothing to do will ethnic organizations but we could all learn a lesson from it.
If you live anywhere in the south and follow SEC football, you know that Sylvester Croom was named as head coach at Mississippi State University. Coach Croom is a class act. He has been an assistant coach for the Green Bay Packers for the past many years. He played football for Bear Bryant at the University of Alabama. When the coaching position came open at UA last year, he was one of the candidates. After interviews and such, UA hired Mike Shula over Sylvester Croom. Jesse Jackson took it upon himself to get involved ...it was a mess.
All this week we've heard nothing from the media (sorry Christina) but "the first black head football coach in the SEC" was named at MSU. Well DUH! In his press conference yesterday, Coach Croom pointed out that he was a football coach that just happened to be African American and that the only color that mattered was maroon (MSU's school color). He will do well at MSU and the Alabama Nation wishes him well...afterall, he is one of our own.
The media has hyped this up so much. A newspaper in Chicago had an article about it stating, yet again, "the first black head football coach in the SEC" and stated that he was passed over at UA for Mike Shula "who is white". Well, DUH! again.
I believe that we in the South have come a long way where race relations is concerned...not to say there isn't work still to be done on that front. And while hiring Sylvester Croom at MSU is historic, we should listen to the man and I can assure you he will not play the race card. Good luck Coach Croom....until November 6 when you come to Tuscaloosa. |
| Christina |
Posted - December 03 2003 : 12:02:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by richfed
Reminds me of the time I was watching TV - on the wards in the "Psycho Days" - Jim, you out there? Anywhere? - at Pilgrim Psychiatric Center on Long Island [before transferring to Securemann's neck of the woods]. The patients were watching a Black Miss America beauty contest or some sort of thing. My buddy and I just looked at each & smiled. Said he, "Imagine if they called it a WHITE Beauty contest?" We laughed. Eddie Townes, a great guy, is black.
Right on, Rich. And right on, HM. These racially "exclusive" groups and names and organizations most often lead to nothing but trouble. Reminds me of the psycho days at my college (Sarah Lawrence) in Yonkers, NY back in the late '80s. The "diversity" and political correctness bugs were just starting to hit the campus and a group of African American students formed a "black awareness" group. Trouble was, the only way a caucasian of any sort (Jewish, Irish, Italian, etc. etc.)could join is if you basically stood up and told them you acknowledged the white race was responsible for all the wrongs in the world. I have no problem with groups that explore ethnic culture -- case in point, I just covered an event at our university sponsored by the Muslim Students Association. It's not a group just for Muslims -- it's a multi-ethnic and cultural group dedicated to learning about Islamic culture, holding interfaith discussions etc. As far as I'm concerned, get together and discuss/promote/study/enjoy any culture or group that you want, but if it's a group just dedicated to ostracizing others, no way.
Personally, I think high school students probably have a lot better things to do (and study!) than forming all these exclusive and divisive groups. How many studies have been released showing a lot of American kids can't even point out their own state on a map? Oh well...
sigggghhhhh...
Christina
quote:
Originally posted by Adele
I have to say Rich, that this is one of my pet peeves. I cannot stand any form of racism and in my opinion, the creation of ANY group based on the colour of its members or ethnic origin of its members only contributes to more misunderstanding and racial tension. If it HAS to be done, then at the very least it should be done on an equal level. Do people really want to go back to segregation? Because events like Miss Black America, and organisations created only for black lawyers, or latin musicians or whatever, only serves to kill the work of the civil rights activists who fought (and died) for the inclusion of ethnic groups in all areas. Things may not be perfect yet, but they were headed in the right direction. This sort of nonsense is a backward step for everyone.
HM
|
| securemann |
Posted - November 30 2003 : 7:19:05 PM
Yep,psycho vet reporting for duty. |
| Adele |
Posted - November 30 2003 : 04:22:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by richfed
Reminds me of the time I was watching TV - on the wards in the "Psycho Days" - Jim, you out there? Anywhere? - at Pilgrim Psychiatric Center on Long Island [before transferring to Securemann's neck of the woods]. The patients were watching a Black Miss America beauty contest or some sort of thing. My buddy and I just looked at each & smiled. Said he, "Imagine if they called it a WHITE Beauty contest?" We laughed. Eddie Townes, a great guy, is black.
I have to say Rich, that this is one of my pet peeves. I cannot stand any form of racism and in my opinion, the creation of ANY group based on the colour of its members or ethnic origin of its members only contributes to more misunderstanding and racial tension. If it HAS to be done, then at the very least it should be done on an equal level. Do people really want to go back to segregation? Because events like Miss Black America, and organisations created only for black lawyers, or latin musicians or whatever, only serves to kill the work of the civil rights activists who fought (and died) for the inclusion of ethnic groups in all areas. Things may not be perfect yet, but they were headed in the right direction. This sort of nonsense is a backward step for everyone.
HM |
| richfed |
Posted - November 29 2003 : 5:50:28 PM
Reminds me of the time I was watching TV - on the wards in the "Psycho Days" - Jim, you out there? Anywhere? - at Pilgrim Psychiatric Center on Long Island [before transferring to Securemann's neck of the woods]. The patients were watching a Black Miss America beauty contest or some sort of thing. My buddy and I just looked at each & smiled. Said he, "Imagine if they called it a WHITE Beauty contest?" We laughed. Eddie Townes, a great guy, is black. |
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