Re: Chingachgook's Birth Name

Posted by Elaine on May 03, 1999 at 15:43:05:

In Reply to: Re: Chingachgook's Birth Name posted by Gayle on May 03, 1999 at 14:08:48:

: : : : : : Could someone please tell me Chingachgook's birthname or his original one?

: : : : : Chingachgook, as an hereditary chief of the Turtle Clan of the Mohican tribe, bore the name of his father and grandfather, and of course his son - Uncas.

: : : : : Gayle

: : : : Hi Gayle,

: : : : "My tribe is the grandfather of nations ...... my boy is the last of the Mohicans."

: : : : Actually, Chingachgook is Delaware. Uncas' mother is Mohican.

: : : : Elaine

: : : Elaine,

: : : The relationship between the Delawares and the Mohicans is one I never got straight, because Cooper seems to intermix the terms so much. However, I think your quote is from the movie, while I am, as usual, going on the books. In The Wept of Wish Ton Wish, Chingachgook's father, Uncas, plays a part. And in the book Last of The Mohicans, Chingachgook explains that his grandfather, his father, he and his son all bear the hereditary name. Again, there is kind of a fuzzy idea of whether it is a Delaware or Mohican name of descent. We're getting into the matriarchy thing here, are we not?

: : : Gayle
: : : Gayle

: : Hi Gayle Gayle .... :)

: : Actually, the quote is from the book, p.25. (You KNOW I would only use the book as reference!) Within the quote Chingachgook speaks of himself as "a chief and a sagamore" & relates that he has "never visited the graves of my fathers!" Two things about this; yes, we are getting into the matriarchy thing - descendency is only through the maternal line. IF Chingachgook were Mohican, Uncas would not be a Mohican "prince." His title could only pass from Wah-Ta-Wah, his mother. Also, the land upon which LOTM takes place is Mohican land. Delaware (Lenape) land is to the south & east. He could not visit his "father's grave" because he no longer lived on Delaware land. He speaks of the Dutch using "fire-water" to part them from their land "foot by foot."

: : "Grandfathers" is a termed used for the Delaware because they are said to be the oldest people in the northeast. Cooper understood the relationship of the Mohican to the Delaware which is why he intermixed them at times. Mohicans ARE related to the Delaware.

: : As for Uncas; it is actually a Mohegan (Pequot) name meaning "fox." Without getting into the possible symbolic usage on the part of Cooper with regards to his choice of the name Uncas, "The Wept of Wish Ton Wish" was written later. I think the hereditary name that Chingachgook speaks of is that of sachem/sagamore. They all have "the blood of the sagamores."

: : Soooooooooo ...... Ching is a Delaware "noble" - married to a Mohican "noble" - and that boy Uncas is of "noble" blood of them both but a "prince" of the Mohicans. Is that fuzzier? :)

: Elaine,

: Much fuzzier, thanks. I will go back and look at the book again, too. For some reason I didn't remember Chingachgook refering to Uncas as "my boy" except in the movie. Oh well, you can see how I'm beginning to merge the book and the movie in my mind. Darn Mann for creating such a seductively great film. It ruins the best of literary purists! ;-)

: Gayle

My sentiments exactly! Damn that Mann! Seducing, corrupting, and confusing the purists with his great film.

Let me know if I can help fuzz it up some more.

E

PS By the way, that should read "tribal and/or title descendAncy."
Of course Uncas descends from his father too. DUH! Fuzzier and fuzzier ...

Follow Ups:

• Re: Chingachgook's Birth Name Gayle 13:16:15 5/04/99 (8)
  • Re: Chingachgook's Birth Name Elaine 20:52:35 5/04/99 (7)
    • Re: Chingachgook's Birth Name Gayle 11:36:29 5/06/99 (6)
      • Re: Chingachgook's Birth Game Elaine 09:43:54 5/07/99 (5)
        • Re: Chingachgook's Birth Game Gayle 12:37:25 5/07/99 (4)
          • Re: Chingachgook's Birth Game Kathy S 22:56:08 5/07/99 (3)
            • Re: Chingachgook's Birth Game Gayle 12:04:33 5/12/99 (2)
              • Re: Chingachgook's Birth Game Chris 21:49:15 5/12/99 (1)
                • Re: Chingachgook's Birth Game Gayle 10:45:02 5/13/99 (0)

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Comments:
: : : : : : : Could someone please tell me Chingachgook's birthname or his original one?

: : : : : : Chingachgook, as an hereditary chief of the Turtle Clan of the Mohican tribe, bore the name of his father and grandfather, and of course his son - Uncas.

: : : : : : Gayle

: : : : : Hi Gayle,

: : : : : "My tribe is the grandfather of nations ...... my boy is the last of the Mohicans."

: : : : : Actually, Chingachgook is Delaware. Uncas' mother is Mohican.

: : : : : Elaine

: : : : Elaine,

: : : : The relationship between the Delawares and the Mohicans is one I never got straight, because Cooper seems to intermix the terms so much.  However, I think your quote is from the movie, while I am, as usual, going on the books.  In The Wept of Wish Ton Wish, Chingachgook's father, Uncas, plays a part.  And in the book Last of The Mohicans, Chingachgook explains that his grandfather, his father, he and his son all bear the hereditary name.  Again, there is kind of a fuzzy idea of whether it is a Delaware or Mohican name of descent.  We're getting into the matriarchy thing here, are we not?

: : : : Gayle
: : : : Gayle 

: : : Hi Gayle Gayle .... :)

: : : Actually, the quote is from the book, p.25. (You KNOW I would only use the book as reference!) Within the quote Chingachgook speaks of himself as "a chief and a sagamore" & relates that he has "never visited the graves of my fathers!" Two things about this; yes, we are getting into the matriarchy thing - descendency is only through the maternal line. IF Chingachgook were Mohican, Uncas would not be a Mohican "prince." His title could only pass from Wah-Ta-Wah, his mother. Also, the land upon which LOTM takes place is Mohican land. Delaware (Lenape) land is to the south & east. He could not visit his "father's grave" because he no longer lived on Delaware land. He speaks of the Dutch using "fire-water" to part them from their land "foot by foot."

: : : "Grandfathers" is a termed used for the Delaware because they are said to be the oldest people in the northeast. Cooper understood the relationship of the Mohican to the Delaware which is why he intermixed them at times. Mohicans ARE related to the Delaware.

: : : As for Uncas; it is actually a Mohegan (Pequot) name meaning "fox." Without getting into the possible symbolic usage on the part of Cooper with regards to his choice of the name Uncas, "The Wept of Wish Ton Wish" was written later. I think the hereditary name that Chingachgook speaks of is that of sachem/sagamore. They all have "the blood of the sagamores."

: : : Soooooooooo ...... Ching is a Delaware "noble" - married to a Mohican "noble" - and that boy Uncas is of "noble" blood of them both but a "prince" of the Mohicans. Is that fuzzier? :)

: : Elaine,

: : Much fuzzier, thanks.  I will go back and look at the book again, too.  For some reason I didn't remember Chingachgook refering to Uncas as "my boy" except in the movie.  Oh well, you can see how I'm beginning to merge the book and the movie in my mind.  Darn Mann for creating such a seductively great film.  It ruins the best of literary purists! ;-)

: : Gayle

: My sentiments exactly! Damn that Mann! Seducing, corrupting, and confusing the purists with his great film. 

: Let me know if I can help fuzz it up some more. 

: E

: PS  By the way, that should read "tribal and/or title descendAncy."
: Of course Uncas descends from his father too. DUH! Fuzzier and fuzzier ...


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