Re: Europe, Netherlands & the world

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: Just had to change the subject header :) I don't need that many condolences on the loss of a politician I mostly disagreed with and didn't much like at all in fact :))

: : >>>>> Have you ever seen "No Man's Land"? You might enjoy this.

: I did see it, I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I can recommend it to anyone with a strong stomach and a sardonic sense of humour. A worthy winner of an Academy Award. 

: : >>>>>> Is Holland undergoing a populist revolution? Is this a 'too much freedom' reaction?

: It is an interesting question you ask. In a way, I think yes, there is something like a populist revolution, but is it a 'too much freedom' reaction? Today they claim not to be able to say what they think, they claim 'they don't listen to us'. About a year ago the accusation was that politicians listened too much to erratic voices of the public and neglected their ideological principles. Four years ago the ruling coalition was re-elected with a big majority of votes because 'they are doing so well'. I don't think it is as simple as a 'too much freedom' reaction. I think what Fortuyn brought out, and contributed to, is the surfacing of an undercurrent of discontent, of fear and anger, that seems to need no argumentation or sense of direction at all. So coming Wednesday, many people are expected to throw in 'sympathy votes' for Fortuyn or 'protest' votes against everything else. The thing that nags me about it, is that I feel compelled now to throw in a 'strategic' vote to counter that, instead of voting for what I believe in.

: Irony has it, that just a few days before Fortuyn's assassination, the leading British magazine 'The Economist' concluded a survey on the Netherlands. It's main conclusions: Why is everybody complaining? Everything is going so well here. Of course with all the turmoil now, who remembers?

: : >>>>>> Isn't this happening all over Europe? It seems the recent French elections had a bit of backlash to it. Spain has certainly  moved to a more conservative political camp (and they've really engaged themselves in investing in S American economies). How much of these political changes, as a European, do you believe have grown due to the September 11 tragedy? It's all very interesting to me.

: It's not a sudden thing. It's been happening for some time in Europe. We had our first extreme right party in the 80's, Le Pen was already there in the 80's. Dewinter's Flemish Block has been around for ages, it feels. There's Haider and others with varying degrees of success. I think the September 11 atrocity worked as a catalyst in this. Fear and anger are sources to be tapped, and they are being tapped very well. Overnight, Le Pen turned from being anti-semite to being anti-islam (whatever brings in votes). Fortuyn (who I didn't consider to be a racist and who wouldn't have anything to do with men like Le Pen, but has been anti-islam for some time) would have never had the audience that he had the last few months. His book, Against the Islamization of our Culture, from 1997, started selling real numbers after September 11 2001. At that time he had not even announced having political ambitions. 
: September 11 tore down the taboos in political debate, which in itself is good. There's been more debate that there was 4 years ago in my country; a lot more people are expected to vote. All in all I'm somewhat worried, but not desparate yet, but check back with me after Wednesday :)
: The thing that worries me in a more international setting, is that themes like security and safety and the war on terror are given so much weight now that everything else, every belief, every ideal seems to come secundary at the best. In my opinion, it is a thin veil for xenophobia, in it's literal meaning: the fear of the unknown. 

: : >>>>> Yes, in some ways; in other ways, I think humanity is at a crossroads & already we've witnessed incredible changes few of us ever thought we'd witness.

: You know, I remember seeing the Berlin wall go down in 1989. At that time, I thought I would never see something as exciting as that again in my days. I looked at my Times Atlas of World History and it's maps (cost me about 250 Dutch Guilders) and reduced it to a placemat from then on. Went out and bought a new one when it was available again. It went out of date within 6 months. Now I have 2 rather expensive placemats, and I am very reluctant to buy a third. Times are so dynamic :) 

: : Waht-ah-war!

: Waht-ah-heck??? Where's the Commander?

: : PS Check out the World Link TV URL I posted to Bea. I believe you'll find it very interesting.

: You're right! I'll try to collect all sources I read on the web and send them to you and Bea.

: Ilse


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