Re: Dana

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: : : : : : : : So while we are on the subject of 'Truth'......

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: : : : : : : : Truth is a point, the subtlest and finest; harder than adamant; never to be broken, worn away or blunted. Its only bad quality is, that it is sure to hurt those who touch it; and likely to draw blood, perhaps the life blood of those who press earnestly upon it.
: : : : : : : : (Walter Savage Landor)

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: : : : : : : ~~I'm not afraid of the Truth.  I believe Someone touched it for me. (Just revieling my path a bit.)

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: : : : : : : : Truth is mighty and will prevail. There is nothing wrong with this, except that it ain't so.
: : : : : : : : (Mark Twain)

: : : : : : : ~~Ol' Sam never was a patient sort, was he?

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: : : : : : : : Whatever satisfies the soul is truth.
: : : : : : : : (Walt Whitman)

: : : : : : : ~~I balked at this one right off, then I remembered the Balm of Gilliad.

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: : : : : : : : The truth is rarely pure and never simple.
: : : : : : : : (Oscar Wilde)

: : : : : : : ~~Not through our human eyes, anyway.

: : : : : : : Thanks, Huggy!  Now that were in agreement on truth and unity, maybe we can start working on the rest of that Pax Paper.  Anyone feeling open-minded and in need of a good probing?:)

: : : : : : : Dana S.

: : : : : : *****

: : : : : : *me!* *i do! i do!* 
: : : : : : Actually, Dana, I'm not sure there was agreement on truth & unity. Most seemed to say truth is unchanging & there can be but one; others felt truth is flexible & there can be many. The distinction between perspective & truth wasn't unanimous.
: : : : : : Unity; well, I think it was never really examined on its own merit. The discussion became one of 'how do we achieve this unity?' without defining or weighing it or considering its cost.

: : : : : : Dana, you have NO idea how much I enjoy your enthusiastic expressions (even when made within the safety of self-threads!).

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: : : : : : Elaine

: : : : : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

: : : : : I couldn't agree with you more Elaine.  For someone who professes to have difficulty posting......I think our Dana has a marvellous knack for getting to the heart of things in a coherent and intelligent way (which is more than she does in her emails to ME!!!)

: : : : : As far as Unity goes, here is my question to you.......is it possible to be 'united' with someone whose way of life is fundamentally different to yours?

: : : : : And on the subject of Truth, I would be interested to hear from someone who can explain to me how there can be more than one truth?

: : : : : Sooooo.......there is something for y'all to get your teeth into!

: : : : : Adele

: : : : Good morning, Adele!

: : : : It is quite possible to have more than one "truth", as well as quite common.

: : : : "Truth" is a perception. What I perceive to be the truth, may not necessarily be what you see as the truth...........for instance, when two people witness an event, each may see it entirely different from the other. Therefore, when questioned on what happened, each may have a different story, and each believing their version to be the truth. This fact of life is borne out in courts every day........thus you have more than one "truth".......and each one quite often is correct. I deal with that little problem almost daily............

: : : : .......and that's why there is Instant Replay and appeals in the NFL!

: : : : Seamus

: : : ~~~~~~~~~~~~

: : : Ah, but you see Seamus, this is where I beg to differ.  I believe that there is only one 'truth' - everything else is perception - and the two are not the same things at all.  We confuse ourselves by talking about 'telling the truth', but sometimes it is not the truth, it is only our perception of the truth.  For example, if I witnessed an accident, I could go in to court, lay my hand on a bible and swear to tell the truth.  I then tell the truth, but another witness comes forward, also telling 'the truth' and offers a different story of events.  So what is the truth?  The truth is what REALLY happened, not what people saw, or remembered, or didn't see - it is the whole event, and that is something that no one person could possibly know.  The best we can do, is take all the pieces of information about what happened and try and construct a picture of the truth.  (I am not sure this is all making sense, but I am doing the best I can!!).  I guess that I am trying to distinguish between the truth, as in being honest, and the truth, as in indisputable fact or actuality.

: : : We had a superb tv advertisement here a few years back which illustrates the point perfectly.  It was for a leading broadsheet newspaper and it showed two pieces of film, the first piece showed a skinhead looking hostile and running towards a businessman, he then tackled the businessman to the floor.  It then fades to black.  (I could go into court and truthfully say that the skinhead charged at the businessman and knocked him to the ground).  The second piece of film shows the same scene but with a wider angled lense.  The part that is missing from the first piece of film is that, above the businessman, some bricks are starting to topple from the roof above the businessman, and that the skinhead actually saved the businessman from being crushed beneath the bricks.  The slogan for the ad incidentally, was something along the lines of, 'get the whole picture'.

: : : Does this make any sense?

: : : Adele

: : Adele and all,

: : I don't know about you guys, but my conceptual thinking muscles needed a good rest after reading the Pax Papers. OUCH!! Don't use those much I'm afraid. If you need to see black and white, I'm the one to ask for assistance. If you're looking for the um-teenth shade of gray, I can't help ya! I've come to think of myself as being a smart soul in a dumb body! HA!

: : WOW, Elaine, I enjoyed reading (and thinking, and thinking, and thinking) about your essay, as well as everyones comments. But, Adele to me, you hit the nail on the head! I think when we see "the whole picture", that's when we'll realize the (?)collective truth, but in our journey, which I feel everyone is on whether they realize it or not, we reach our own perceptions of truth which we may (or may not) be comfortable with. I also think (be afraid, Diana's thinking again) that as we more synchronously move toward understanding the truth, that we approach a true unity. So is not our search for truth our search for unity? And when we get there, then what? Do we then turn around and cheer-on the rest of the world to reach the truth? What's the next truth? OHHHH, I'm sorry teacher, I think I got lost along the way somewhere. I have REAL trouble thinking gray!!!!

: : Hope I didn't fumble the discussion ball too much. Maybe someone could do an instant replay and see where I went astray (Seamus?)

: : Diana S.

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: I can read you loud and clear, Diana.  The Truth is so infinite.  I don't believe we will ever know the whole Truth in this life.  If we did reach the Truth, I think we would need another lifetime to apply it to our lives.  Even if we ALL knew ALL the Truth, unless we ALL applied it to our lives, there would be no unity.  There are going to be those who don't want anything to do with the Truth.

: Dana S.


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