Re: The unenviable fates of the men who signed the Declaration of Independence

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: Hi Vita!

: While the American Indians (in general) certainly espoused many a great thought, philosophy and mysticism, being human, if offered the chance by destiny, their warlords would have happily invaded Europe and massacred its inhabitants to give themselves more lebensraum.

: How do you think they would have acomplished that??? And I do not think you should apply these European 20th century concepts like "Lebensraum" (which I DO know what it means BTW) to 18th or 19th century America. 

: WE, members of the beings we call homo sapien, shall never reach full potential and forever remain locked in the circle of cause and effect.

: Vita, I actually do agree with you here... 

: Dear Rich, I think your argument comes too close to the famous "the end justifies the means" to make me feel comfortable. Okay, Rich, it's very late here. Do you mind if I think about this, and postpone my thoughts till the weekend?

: Ilse

: : 
: : It is the IDEALS, not necessarily the DEEDS, these great men set forth that make us a great country. They were mortals, like you & me, and far from perfect, like you & me. What they did is set the ground work for greatness ... all WE, and those who have come before & those who will follow, have to do is live up it. No easy task, but ...

: : : 
: : : :      Ok, so many of the guys who signed the Declaration of Independence got the short end of the stick, and yes, they did risk a lot and lost a lot as a result of their actions.  However, you cannot avoid seeing the irony of the situation. Here are these "gentleman" of wealth and power who sign a document that leads to revolution and the creation of a new country.  Ironically enough, this same country for which these men "...who gave all they had that they and others would be free" turns around AND literally obliterates all that Native Americans had so that that they (Americans) may have all their (Native Americans')lands and the natural resources to be found on these lands.  At the same time, this same country that was born out of the bloodshed of revolution, then turned around and and said that Freedom was not meant for Blacks, Native Americans, Mexicans, Chinese, etc.  Seen in this light, these men paid a small price compared to the price paid by those who became the victims of Manifest Destiny. 
: : : :      Don't get me wrong, the signers of the Declaration of Independence did a great many things that resulted in the country we have today, but you cannot weave such a heroic tapestry of what these men did and sacrificed and not acknowledge that there is a seamier side to the tapestry if you just flip it over and see the "other" sides of the story.  You have to admit that the fates of many of these peoples were equally if not more unenviable than that of the signers of the DOI.  


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