Re: Suicide equals weakness?

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Posted by Kathy S on August 08, 1998 at 17:28:09:

In Reply to: Re: Manns versus Cooper versus Dunne posted by Rich on August 08, 1998 at 15:29:30:

: : Having read Cooper's novel, and finding so little about the relationships between the main characters to be the same as Mann's portrayal of these characters, I don't find it useful to use Cooper's writings in explaing the relationships we see in the film.

: It's like a butterfly that resembles very little the caterpillar that it was, but, it WAS a caterpillar!

: Fact is, Cooper wrote a story. Mann adapted it. Many of the basics are the same. It would be wrong to exclude Cooper's influence on what we see in the 1992 film. And, don't forget, there was a middle step in the evolution, Phillip Dunne's 1936 screenplay. Mann himself has said, and I quote, that the 1992 version "is 1/3 Cooper, 1/3 Dunne, & 1/3 original."

: However, even if you totally eliminate Cooper from the picture, surely a mortal sin when discussing HIS tale, "The Last Of The Mohicans" ... but even if you do, Alice, as MANN portrays her, is, to my mind, devoid of all semblances of strength. Suicide is weak, cliff battering or not. Apparantly, Alice felt the relative quickness of that death would be favorable to a life, or death, at the hands of the evil Magua. How much her "love" ... if indeed she was feeling any ... towards Uncas played into the picture is difficult to say. It should be noted, however, that even when Uncas was alive & well, Alice was totally non-resistant to pending death ...

: Color me a DOPE!

: A brief synopsis of the '36 film can be found at:

Is it the suicide that really clinches it for you, Rich. You said it was weak. Does that what make Alice a candidate for Wimp of 1757? When she witnessed Magua torture Uncas, mutilating Uncas' arm, I think she was frightened, not of death, but a similar fate. She despaired at that moment. She was disgusted and turned away. Despair and weakness are not the same. I think she jumped from strenghth, she chose her own death, which she knew was imminent. I may not have done it that way, but I never know when to quit, and am a hopeful coward most of the time.

Kathy S

Follow Ups:

Re: Suicide equals weakness? Elaine 21:14:29 8/08/98 (21)
- Re: Suicide equals weakness? Dar 22:47:20 8/08/98 (3)
  - Re: Suicide equals weakness? Kathy S 23:20:10 8/08/98 (2)
    - Re: Suicide equals weakness? Dar 00:41:07 8/09/98 (1)
      - Re: Suicide equals weakness? Kathy S 02:17:34 8/09/98 (0)
- Re: Suicide equals weakness? Kathy S 22:07:27 8/08/98 (16)
  - Re: Suicide equals weakness? Petra 01:37:19 8/09/98 (15)
    - Re: Suicide equals weakness? Kathy S 02:49:47 8/09/98 (14)
      - Strength and Sensitivity Katherine 08:49:27 8/10/98 (10)
        
        Re: Strength and Sensitivity Kathy S 15:07:38 8/10/98 (8)
        
        Re: Suicide ... a sin! Elaine 16:12:09 8/10/98 (1)
        
        Re: Suicide ... a sin! Kathy S 18:48:15 8/10/98 (0)
        
        Strength, Sensitivity & One Little Question Marcia 15:15:17 8/10/98 (5)
        
        Re: Strength, Sensitivity & One Little Question Kathy S 19:22:53 8/10/98 (0)
        
        Re: Strength, Sensitivity & One Little Question kathy S 19:09:45 8/10/98 (3)
        
        One Little Question and then Some Marcia 20:47:15 8/10/98 (2)
        
        Re: One Little Question and then Some Kathy S 01:47:49 8/11/98 (1)
        
        Re: One Little Question and then Some Marcia 10:51:33 8/11/98 (0)
        
        Re: Strength and Sensitivity Vita 09:18:37 8/10/98 (0)
      - Re: weakness? Petra 12:10:57 8/09/98 (0)
      - Sensitivity Marcia 08:13:13 8/09/98 (1)
        
        Re: Sensitivity Petra 11:39:35 8/09/98 (0)

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Comments:
: : : Having read Cooper's novel, and finding so little about the relationships between the main characters to be the same as Mann's portrayal of these characters, I don't find it useful to use Cooper's writings in explaing the relationships we see in the film.

: : It's like a butterfly that resembles very little the caterpillar that it was, but, it WAS a caterpillar!

: : Fact is, Cooper wrote a story. Mann adapted it. Many of the basics are the same. It would be wrong to exclude Cooper's influence on what we see in the 1992 film. And, don't forget, there was a middle step in the evolution, Phillip Dunne's 1936 screenplay. Mann himself has said, and I quote, that the 1992 version "is 1/3 Cooper, 1/3 Dunne, & 1/3 original."

: : However, even if you totally eliminate Cooper from the picture, surely a mortal sin when discussing HIS tale, "The Last Of The Mohicans" ... but even if you do, Alice, as MANN portrays her, is, to my mind, devoid of all semblances of strength. Suicide is weak, cliff battering or not. Apparantly, Alice felt the relative quickness of that death would be favorable to a life, or death, at the hands of the evil Magua. How much her "love" ... if indeed she was feeling any ... towards Uncas played into the picture is difficult to say. It should be noted, however, that even when Uncas was alive & well, Alice was totally non-resistant to pending death ...

: : Color me a DOPE!

: : A brief synopsis of the '36 film can be found at:

: Is it the suicide that really clinches it for you, Rich. You said it was weak. Does that what make Alice a candidate for Wimp of 1757? When she witnessed Magua torture Uncas, mutilating Uncas' arm, I think she was frightened, not of death, but a similar fate. She despaired at that moment. She was disgusted and turned away. Despair and weakness are not the same. I think she jumped from strenghth, she chose her own death, which she knew was imminent. I may not have done it that way, but I never know when to quit, and am a hopeful coward most of the time.

: Kathy S

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