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waldo
Recruit
USA
Status: offline |
 Posted - September 02 2008 : 9:04:20 PM
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Has anyone ever gathered together the accounts of the indians? There must be some clues to what happened in what they have to say.
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Sgtmajor109th
Captain
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - September 03 2008 : 11:32:08 AM
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There are many written accounts by Indians on the battle, but the
problem you have is people believeing them, you will have the big
problem of people saying that the Indians told you what you wanted
to hear. There are many who took part, and were eyewitness, but
you will find many who will not believe what they had to say. |
Sgtmajor |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - September 03 2008 : 12:30:34 PM
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I am not sure the Indians wrote many accounts. Most likely a translation written by the translator which could introduce error. The problem I see is that even if exactly factual you need to put the account in the proper time and location. That's our problem and not necessarily the veracity of the account.
AZ Ranger |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
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Brent
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - September 04 2008 : 07:20:16 AM
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Mincho does a good job in gathering together as many Indian "accounts" of the battle that exist. Also trying to establish the true size and shape of the Village.
Some of the Indian accounts are probably true--some not. And unfortunately no real way to tell which is which. |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - September 05 2008 : 9:17:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by waldo
Has anyone ever gathered together the accounts of the Indians? There must be some clues to what happened in what they have to say.
Hi Waldo,
The Indians have extensive accounts of the battle and how it unfolded. The following are excellent references that will provide you with a wealth of information:
Lakota Recollections of the Custer Fight...Richard G. Hardorff;
Cheyenne Memories of the Custer Fight......Richard G. Hardorff;
Hokahey! A good Day to Die.................Richard G. Hardorff.
A great deal of Indian testimony has been, rightfully so, disregarded due to conflicts with facts that are known to us regarding the battle. The reasons for this are to numerous to list here. However, the major problem with Indian testimony is that the warrior was a very individual fighter and often only reported what he saw and, disregarding what he did not see. that is why some warriors swear that Custer approached the ford and other will swear he did not. In actuality both groups are telling the truth. One group (Cheyennes) were already at the ford when the soldiers approached. the other group (Sioux) were still responding from Reno's front and arrived to late to see the soldiers approached the ford.
There are a minute minority of person's who refuse to acknowledge Indian testimony because according to Webster's dictionary testimony is defined as, "statement given as evidence in court" which precludes all Indian testimony. This smacks of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The Webster's New Encyclopedic Dictionary defines testimony (2A) "evidence based on observation or knowledge." this is exactly what you have with Indian testimony. To refute all Indian testimony because a bailiff wasn't handy is well...you know.
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - September 05 2008 : 9:21:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Brent
Mincho does a good job in gathering together as many Indian "accounts" of the battle that exist. Also trying to establish the true size and shape of the Village.
Some of the Indian accounts are probably true--some not. And unfortunately no real way to tell which is which.
I agree Brent. Fortunately, when one takes the time to evaluate, research, and analyze all Indian information than, corroborate that Information with known facts a great deal of information can be derived. |
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waldo
Recruit
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - September 06 2008 : 5:59:55 PM
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| Did the scout Curley survive? Did anyone ask him what he saw? He would have info on who who went to the ford, where Custer was ect. |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - September 06 2008 : 7:59:25 PM
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Waldo,
Curley did survive the battle although the word "survivor" may be a misnomer as the possibility exist that he departed Custer's command prior to the engagement. Fantastic stories were often told about Curley's survival, not all of which were his fault. Many interpreters put words in his mouth that were not his. John S. Gray felt that he was very much maligned and believed that he was a reliable informant for those who took the time to listen.
In an interview with Russell White Bear Curley had the following to say:
[i]Boyer called to me and said: "Curley, you better leave us here. You ride back over the trail a ways and then go to one of the high points and watch a while and see if the Sioux are besting us, and you can make your way back to Terry and tell him we are all killed."[/i]
Gray has Curley ascending a ravine in an easterly direction into upper Deep Coulée. The surrounding of Custer's troops by the Sioux had yet to be accomplished. At a knoll about 1 1/2 miles from the battlefield he has been alleged to have viewed the end of the battle through field glasses. |
Edited by - joe wiggs on September 06 2008 8:00:54 PM |
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Indian view
