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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
 Posted - October 23 2007 : 5:34:06 PM
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Poll Question:
What is the value of Indian testimony in discerning Custer's final hour?
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - October 23 2007 : 5:44:21 PM
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I have participated in numerous discussions regarding the importance of Indian testimony in regards to compiling information concerning, particularly, the last hour or so of the battle. These discussions have ranged from what actually constitutes Indian testimony to defining the term itself.
A few members have stridently voiced their opinions. I would be very interested in finding out how the whole forum feels about this important issue. Make your vote and let's see how the majority stands. |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - February 27 2010 : 4:40:16 PM
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| It certainly helps to see that three others agree that the need to include Indian testimony is substantial. According to a minute but vocal minority, Indian testimony does not exist. |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - March 01 2010 : 07:41:44 AM
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I have read many Indians accounts but no Indian testimony. Even at RCOI Indian accounts were introduced. The difference is that they were hearsay at RCOI and not testimony where they could have been charged with perjury as a person would be if making a knowingly false testimony.
The error factors of translation, recollection errors, and retelling of accounts of nothing to do with the veracity of the person telling the account. It has everything to do with its accuracy. The Indians accounts are what they are. Just as Private Peter Thompson gave his account.
Since the original sources are dead and the translators if they were used are dead then it is up to each individual to place the weight they feel appropriate to the accounts.
So the bottom line is there any difference in Joe's meaning of an Indian statement, Indian account, and Indian testimony. No
I chose to hold a higher standard to someone who takes an oath to tell the truth. Apparently Joe does not therefore his use of testimony has no measure of accountability anymore than someone bragging about how good he was in any particular event.
Since Joe sees no difference between testimony and account why did use testimony instead of account in his poll question. Since he has been in the discussion of testimony v. account then he can no longer claim ignorance. Does he feel his poll would have a different meaning if he substitute account or statement for testimony? Or does he really hold a different standard when he uses the word testimony?
AZ Ranger |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
Edited by - AZ Ranger on March 01 2010 07:54:55 AM |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - September 17 2011 : 10:01:26 PM
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How very, very sad. Az insists that Indian testimony is the trash of reality, incapable of making sense nor rationality. Yet, the ambiguous, contradictory, ridiculous testimony of the "white" testimony at the the Reno Inquiry he has no comment to refer to, pro or con.
Is it not amazing that the ethnocentric used by AZ formulates rationalization that consistently over looks the viable information of non-whites while insisting that the "testimony" of "whites" is true "testimony".
Judge not, least ye be judged. |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - October 01 2011 : 8:22:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joe wiggs
How very, very sad. Az insists that Indian testimony is the trash of reality, incapable of making sense nor rationality. Yet, the ambiguous, contradictory, ridiculous testimony of the "white" testimony at the the Reno Inquiry he has no comment to refer to, pro or con.
Is it not amazing that the ethnocentric used by AZ formulates rationalization that consistently over looks the viable information of non-whites while insisting that the "testimony" of "whites" is true "testimony".
Judge not, least ye be judged.
Joe you are a pathetic liar. I hope you were drunk when you wrote that garbage. It's about the difference between accounts and testimony has nothing to with race.
AZ Ranger |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - October 21 2011 : 4:58:42 PM
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No AZ, I was not drunk. But let me reciprocate, where you drunk when you viciously called someone you have not even met, yet you propose to know as a "pathetic liar?" Secondly, do you believe that you would have the courage to spew such venom at anyone person to person? Of course not! You are neither that stupid nor vicious enough to do such a thing in a society such as ours where violence reigns supreme over the merest provocation.
I ask,therefore, why commit such a reprehensible act while hiding comfortably in the vast and safe environs of cypher-space? Every time a grown man resorts to such juvenile tactics, he belittles no one but himself. You have a nice day. |
Edited by - joe wiggs on October 21 2011 5:06:51 PM |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - October 30 2011 : 01:38:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by joe wiggs
No AZ, I was not drunk. But let me reciprocate, where you drunk when you viciously called someone you have not even met, yet you propose to know as a "pathetic liar?" Secondly, do you believe that you would have the courage to spew such venom at anyone person to person? Of course not! You are neither that stupid nor vicious enough to do such a thing in a society such as ours where violence reigns supreme over the merest provocation.
I ask,therefore, why commit such a reprehensible act while hiding comfortably in the vast and safe environs of cypher-space? Every time a grown man resorts to such juvenile tactics, he belittles no one but himself. You have a nice day.
where you drunk --- Usually in a bar
Joe its your written "testimony" that I am calling you a liar on. If you don't stand by you on written "testimony" than how can I believe anything you write. |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
Edited by - AZ Ranger on October 30 2011 01:40:35 AM |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 18 2011 : 9:38:24 PM
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In open debate between "men" one promotes his beliefs. These "beliefs" may be agreed upon or disagreed ( in open forum) upon as actual factual confirmation regarding historical events are not always available. Therefore, one reads, studies, and compromises until a reasonable thesis is accomplished.
For any individual to vehemently state that another person who may have derived an opposing theory to yours is a "pathetic liar" is sad and not worth of manhood. you will note that I have never referred to you as such. then again, I may have been raised differently. |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 19 2011 : 01:53:48 AM
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Joe my comments are based upon your statement of my position. It has nothing to do with your beliefs. We can have different beliefs but here is what you stated:
Az insists that Indian testimony is the trash of reality, incapable of making sense nor rationality. Yet, the ambiguous, contradictory, ridiculous testimony of the "white" testimony at the the Reno Inquiry he has no comment to refer to, pro or con.
For that I can call you a pathetic liar. Show us where I stated that was my belief in any previous post. If you can't than your statement of my belief is a lie and a pathetic one at that.
AZ Ranger
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“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 19 2011 : 8:02:33 PM
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I understand you perfectly. The issue is quite simple,in reality, where I come from men preserve the accusation "liar" for a face to face accusation. It's just to easy to shout "liar" in hyper space. How about, "I think you are incorrect", or, "perhaps you have your facts wrong", or "I vehemently disagree with you."
I'm 63 years old and will be 64 this January. I guess I'm just an old fashioned "has been" who clings to a fading past where men did not resort to unsubstantiated allegations unless it could be proving.
I have posted nothing that warrants me as a "liar." I have always posted what I believe to be true, rightly or wrongly. If you can find a post of mine that meets the ramifications of a "liar" please post them so that I may challenge your accusations. After all, all that is fair is fair. |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 20 2011 : 01:05:21 AM
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Joe that is what makes it pathetic you have been called such on numerous occasions.
Joe these are lies and you posted them.
Az insists that Indian testimony is the trash of reality, incapable of making sense nor rationality. Yet, the ambiguous, contradictory, ridiculous testimony of the "white" testimony at the the Reno Inquiry he has no comment to refer to, pro or con.
As far as where you come from it would depend on which persona you are using. I am not hard to find.
AZ Ranger |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 20 2011 : 6:12:56 PM
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Az I take no offense at your insistence that all my threads are lies, incapable of rationality because I know within my heart that your response is incredibly untrue and must be driven by an injured psyche;being challenged. I have met, unfortunately, many like yourself. When faced, by someone,with a strong stance who does not agree with your opine, personal frustration exhumes from your mouth into a myriad of salty, silly, and childish accusations such as "pathetic Liar."
Chronologically you may be 63 but emotionally you are about 12.
As for numerous persona's (that you insist that I have  )like a monkey who has his fist in a fruit jar but won't unclench it, Joe Wiggs is plainly open;hell you can even Google it.
As for your veiled threat (shame on you ) I am very disappointed. Are you suggesting I come see you? Whatever for. Please take this free advise sent in good faith and well meant. Adults do not use demeaning descriptions of others to make a point.
When you respond in the future (and I sincerely hope you will) just stay on topic and don't resort to "trash" talk like the rest of the kids on your block. |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 21 2011 : 12:12:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by joe wiggs
Az I take no offense at your insistence that all my threads are lies, incapable of rationality because I know within my heart that your response is incredibly untrue and must be driven by an injured psyche;being challenged. I have met, unfortunately, many like yourself. When faced, by someone,with a strong stance who does not agree with your opine, personal frustration exhumes from your mouth into a myriad of salty, silly, and childish accusations such as "pathetic Liar."
Chronologically you may be 63 but emotionally you are about 12.
As for numerous persona's (that you insist that I have )like a monkey who has his fist in a fruit jar but won't unclench it, Joe Wiggs is plainly open;hell you can even Goggle it.
As for your veiled threat (shame on you) I am very disappointed. Are you suggesting I come see you? Whatever for. Please take this free advise sent in good faith and well meant. Adults do not use demeaning descriptions of others to make a point.
When you respond in the future (and I sincerely hope you will) just stay on topic and don't resort to "trash" talk like the rest of the kids on your block.
Joe you start out with another lie. Apparently you don't know the difference between stating what someone posts falsely which is a lie and having differing opinions that someone might not share your same opinion. Explains why you think account and testimony have the same meaning.
Here is a lie--your insistence that all my threads are lies
You made that up and attributed it to me. Show us here that I insisted "ALL" your threads are lies. Since you can't then that makes it a lie in my opinion. Stating insist that all are lies is not true. I use the word liar when it is appropriate and with you it is frequent.
Stating I am not hard to find is your testimony of a veiled threat. What possibly could be considered a threat in that?
Joe fruit jars have straight walls probably not the best example don't you think?
The use of female persona is well documented on this board and you were caught on the other board as Morning Star.
If you think I would ever follow any advice from you then you are truly slower than I can imagine. You can't even spell AZ correctly.
AZ Ranger
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“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
Edited by - AZ Ranger on November 21 2011 12:30:59 AM |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 23 2011 : 9:07:58 PM
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I see that I have offended you and, as a result, you have (once again) resorted to juvenile replies that only serve to make you look childish. I am sorry for that. I accept full responsibility and humbly beg your pardon.
I will find it difficult to forgive myself for pushing you,once again,to a state of infantile deliriums. You are truly a man. I can not help but admire you for all your accomplishments which you have so graciously informed the forum about. Can you ever forgive me for my vile and irresponsible discretion? |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - November 28 2011 : 11:28:21 PM
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You mean like silver stars?
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“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - December 02 2011 : 8:22:21 PM
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| Once again I apologize, you never got one did you? What a braggart I must seem to be to you. Once again I'm sorry. Mmaybe one day, in another 60 odd years, you may get one. |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - December 03 2011 : 10:22:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AZ Ranger
Joe my comments are based upon your statement of my position. It has nothing to do with your beliefs. We can have different beliefs but here is what you stated:
Az insists that Indian testimony is the trash of reality, incapable of making sense nor rationality. Yet, the ambiguous, contradictory, ridiculous testimony of the "white" testimony at the the Reno Inquiry he has no comment to refer to, pro or con.
For that I can call you a pathetic liar. Show us where I stated that was my belief in any previous post. If you can't than your statement of my belief is a lie and a pathetic one at that.
AZ Ranger
Here I go again, making an apology! You must be sorely frustrated with me and I don't blame you. Here I am chastising you for calling someone (me)you never met a "pathetic Liar" as if you automatically understood why I would do such a thing. If an individual has no "class" and is up in age, you certainly can not teach class to them. It is what it is!
here's some more advice. When you differ in opinion with another adult present facts not juvenile innuendo. Oops, there I go again;drat! |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - December 09 2011 : 08:57:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by joe wiggs
Once again I apologize, you never got one did you? What a braggart I must seem to be to you. Once again I'm sorry. Mmaybe one day, in another 60 odd years, you may get one.
If the military gave silver stars to everyone that survived a gun battle it would have no value would it?
Again you show your ignorance. We don't have silver star or any star awards so you comment is impossible. We do have officer of the year award for total performance. |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - December 11 2011 : 4:14:28 PM
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You may be the most childish adult i have ever had the displeasure to correspond with! Do you believe the nonsense you write. Because your alleged department does not have something no other police force may?
I address a police issue and you respond with a military example! Are you drunk!?! How does the two vastly different situations correlate? The military involvement in war precludes such awards for mass deaths caused by the armed forces. Police officer do not generally go out and kill thousands in one sitting;do they? . Partner, let me suggest a good Psyche, you need assistance! |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - December 18 2011 : 03:56:48 AM
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Apparently you didn't read the last sentence.
"We don't have silver star or any star awards so you comment is impossible. We do have officer of the year award for total performance."
Or for that matter the sentence before it.
"Again you show your ignorance."
And almost finally
I address a police issue and you respond with a military example!
Is this below sentence an example or is it a question?
"If the military gave silver stars to everyone that survived a gun battle it would have no value would it?"
Here is your final ignorant statements:
Mmaybe one day, in another 60 odd years, you may get one.
Because your alleged department does not have something no other police force may?
Seems to me that if I work for any agency that does not have such an award for my whole career your first statement is ignorant of the facts. You second sentence above goes beyond ignorant for it has no reference for the basis of the question.
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“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - December 18 2011 : 6:04:32 PM
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Brother if I were you (Thank God I'm not) I would go light with word "ignorant"! I swear your last two posts are incomprehensible. I must have really touch a sore button to reduce your massive rhetoric to a mere ounce of unidentifiable gibberish!  |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - December 19 2011 : 11:36:03 AM
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| Well Joe just review this board and the discussions you have had with others and you will find a common theme among some of the other posters. They think you are a liar. You can't hold anyone accountable for what you do not understand except yourself. I can understand your problem in the last post since most of it is quoting your posts. |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
Edited by - AZ Ranger on December 19 2011 11:37:58 AM |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - December 21 2011 : 10:00:48 PM
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I feel sorry for you. I know that you do not wish anything from me but, I truly feel sorry for you. Unable to match my ability to present knowledge to this forum, you respond in the only way left to you;with inane, superficial, and silly innuendo. a while back i asked you why 13 out of 16 witnesses heard gunfire when three (your buddies) Wallace,Reno, and Benteen didn't.
Of course you ignored that question because you don't know how to answer it. You would rather call be a "liar" than display your ignorance.Sadly, you have exposed your small mind to everyone who reads your responses. I hope you get better soon. |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - December 22 2011 : 09:21:05 AM
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| When you attack dead officers reputations with starting threads such as Why did Wallace lie you opened the door to be called a liar yourself. |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - December 22 2011 : 09:24:37 AM
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| Merry Christmas Joe |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
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Topic |
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Validity/Non-validity of Indian Testimony
