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wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
 Posted - June 07 2005 : 12:47:34 PM
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DC
I still await your "harsh facts" you offer me nothing and avoid my question.
So just to keep the pot on the boil.
And again, do you feel any responsibility for the suicide epidemic you refuse to address?
The latest ratings would put Ireland in 5 position in Europe for youth suicide and 17 overall.
In the US the biggest killer of youngmen is homicide,auto accident and suicide in that order.So whereas we have one epidemic you have three.And how many of those auto accidents are really suicides?In dealing with the situation in Ireland have you factored in that we have one of the youngest populations in Europe.
Suicide among young men is a social problem in all modern countries but to you it is only a problem if you are top of the league.You have a fascination for numbers.No genocide because one Narragansett was found in a McDonalds,No famine unless numbers are accurately calculated and now suicide is only a problem if a country is top of the numbers league.
It's crap, as you know, so either admit you fabricated it or prove it. You're used to being able to make up or wildly exaggerate these great stories and get away with it.
All will be made clear when you recognise the conflicting views you have posted. |
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dave
Captain
Australia
Status: offline |
Posted - June 07 2005 : 12:51:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wILD I
Hi Dave
I beg to disagree. I believe that you will find that the DNA of the inhabitants of the UK east of Offa's dyke is strongly Anglo-Saxon in nature, while to the west it is strongly Celtic.
I'm sure your are correct I would be very surprised if that was not the case ,these boys were not exactly celibate. However the new blood according to David Miles did not significantly diminish that of the original inhabitants.
To refute Mr Miles then
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/2076470.stm
quote:
but the Tasmanian aboriginals were a small population group. My point being that the term genocide may be correct in that it was the extinction of a particular ethnic group, but in terms of actual numbers, the term genocide is slightly misleading.
Not misleading if you were an Aboriginal.It was 100% of them and really to offer the size of the population as somehow mitigating the outrage is not cricket.
Well I can't change your opinion, but to explain my position. If a family was murdered who were the last to have a certain dialect or practise a certain set of customs, would you consider that genocide? Probably not. What about a small group of families? You probably still wouldn't call it genocide. So there has to be some quantitative basis for calling it genocide, otherwise we would call the destruction of every single tiny tribe genocide.
I don't care to sound cold blooded, but dispassionately thats how I see it.
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No, clearly not. It was an initiative launched by the local settlers, and as such was not reflective of the British Empire in general.
The British Empire was built on the initiative of "locals".If it claims t the land then it can claim the warts.
Thats a little like me claiming that every stupid or callous act committed by the IRA or in the old days by Sinn Fein is representative of the Irish population - which is clearly both false and blatantly unfair. |
Edited by - dave on June 07 2005 12:59:16 PM |
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wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
Posted - June 08 2005 : 11:09:23 AM
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To refute Mr Miles then
Interesting site Dave but hardly definitive.I mean it says that between 50% and 100% of the Celts were wiped out.Now that's a huge margin of error.Nor does it help DC's position because in this case it's his beloved Anglo Saxon's who are doing the ethnic cleansing.
So there has to be some quantitative basis for calling it genocide
If a group of people who had the potential of nationhood was wiped out I would consider that genocide.
Thats a little like me claiming that every stupid or callous act committed by the IRA or in the old days by Sinn Fein is representative of the Irish population - which is clearly both false and blatantly unfair.
But you see Dave callous acts were the norm for the British Empire.
Here is a verse from the British Empire's anthem.[unoffical]
Tell the wretched natives,sinful are their hearts,
Turn their heathen temples into spirit marts,
And if to your teaching they will not succumb,
Give them another sermon with the Maxim gun.
Proves nothing just gives a flavour of empire building.
In a discussion such as this it is necessary to distinguish between the individual and the organisation.In having a go at the British Empire I'm fully aware that the Empire was directed by the English,administered by the Scots at the point of Irish bayonets.1 in 4 troopers at the LBH were Irish.So no I'm not claiming that genocide is representive of the English,the Aussies,the Irish or the Yanks etc what I'm claiming is that the British Empire incorporated along with Uncle Sam incorporated was on occasion guilty of genocide.
And callous acts committed by the Irish?In 1922 the Irish government in order to stamp out assassinations of its ministers took 77 rebel prisoners out and shot them.And that was callous murder. |
Edited by - wILD I on June 08 2005 11:31:13 AM |
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - June 08 2005 : 3:33:36 PM
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The harsh facts, Wild, is that the leading killer of young men in Ireland is suicide. No need to wait, I've said it several times. Your government says so. Of course, you can't address it till you accumulate iffy statistics without url or reference to say that others are just as bad as Ireland if not worse (the Irish are VICTIMS!!!!). I posted my references, you don't. But, of course, they aren't just as bad as Ireland. And the curve is angling up.
Most kids in the US have cars and drive, and motorvehicle accidents are correspondingly high but low for miles driven. Your population isn't any younger than ours and doesn't, relatively speaking, drive at all, atthough that may have changed since I was there.
Actually, it's HIV that's the number one killer of our young at present, murder is mostly in urban slums having to do with drugs and mostly black on black. The leading cause of death for a young black man is another young black man. From the suicide stats, subtract out the number with terminal illness. You can do the same in Ireland, but it makes small difference. It's depression in Ireland. Not impending death as it is here. Scotland has a high suicide rate, but it's apparenlty the elderly and ill doing it their way when the time comes.
All murder is callous, Wild. How could it not be? All the thousands of admitted knee-cappings - who knows how many don't talk for fear? - the murders of family witnesses, the murders of informants to mere drug deals excused under the guise of Patriotism to Eire, all callous.
One in four troopers at the LBH were not Irish, but with few exceptions Americans of Irish stock. There's a difference.
And in the statistic happy US, every crime, event and domestic disturbance is tallied. I know damned well domestic disturbances and even public fist fights aren't tallied in Ireland or most of the world given to calling us "violent" even when authorities are present. Different attitude to it. So while we have heavy crime statistics, that doesn't mean we have worse crime than elsewhere, or that we're more violent. This is why my mantra of applying the same standards the same way is the only way to judge an issue, whether LBH officers or European civilization. Or Ireland.
You want to trot out the charge of genocide for "mere" mass murder, your obligation to prove it. It requires intent by ruling body, and it did not exist here, wasn't attempted, and would not have been tolerated.
So is it fair to make up verses to the Irish National Anthem and post them? Unofficial, of course. "Inbred drunks and your always willing Mooooooooother. As dumb as your Uncle but then he's your faaaaaaaaaather....." See? Just in fun and like your posting, both meaningful and not "mean spirited" because, like you, I'm Celt (whatever that is) and so invulnerable to the charge. And if anyone gets angry, I can just mewl about how I was joking. If they get really angry don't forget the English conquered us. So there. I'm a victim and can libel anyone four hundred years after a not terribly relevant fact because.....um, well, here's a joke. Which is the shorter book: Arab Suicide Bombers Over Twenty or Wars the Irish Won?
What fun.........Of course, I have nothing but the highest respect for.........those genocidal thugs. Why don't you believe me???? |
Dark Cloud
copyright RL MacLeod
darkcloud@darkendeavors.com
www.darkendeavors.com
www.boulderlout.com |
Edited by - Dark Cloud on June 08 2005 3:50:31 PM |
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wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
Posted - June 09 2005 : 08:27:54 AM
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The harsh facts, Wild, is that the leading killer of young men in Ireland is suicide.
I have not checked it but I would not dispute it. In a peaceful state with a healthy young population there are relatively few killers of young men other than suicide.
Most kids in the US have cars and drive, and motorvehicle accidents are correspondingly high but low for miles driven. This is rather like saying the number of deaths in the US due to fire arms is low in comparison to the number of rounds fired.Meaningless stats.
Is there some point to all this?In one short paragraph you mention HIV,slums,drugs,Black violence.Are you saying that this troubled society is somehow less dsyfunctional than society here?
Today's special in mantras is
This is why my mantra of applying the same standards the same way is the only way to judge an issue, whether LBH officers or European civilization. Or Ireland.
We had a special yesterday [You can't blame or even judge people out of their times.]but it was an embarrassment so it has been withdrawn and replaced with the new improved version above.
You want to trot out the charge of genocide for "mere" mass murder, your obligation to prove it. It requires intent by ruling body, and it did not exist here,
It was the policy of the united States to bring about the destruction of the Indian's way of life by forceable removal and imprisonment in concentration camps.Which is genocide, meaning an assault with the express purpose of destroying an nation as such.[this has been discussed ad nauseam]
"Inbred drunks and your always willing Mooooooooother. As dumb as your Uncle but then he's your faaaaaaaaaather....."
Let's try to keep this adult DC .
I'm a victim and can libel anyone four hundred years
Libel---the publication of something false.The Narragansetts like the Aborigines of Tasmania were attacked by settlers of the British Empire and ceased to exist with the possible exception of one or two now resident with the ghost of you know who in Gracelands. |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 11 2005 : 11:19:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Cloud
So is it fair to make up verses to the Irish National Anthem and post them? Unofficial, of course. "Inbred drunks and your always willing Mooooooooother. As dumb as your Uncle but then he's your faaaaaaaaaather....." See? Just in fun and like your posting, both meaningful and not "mean spirited" because, like you, I'm Celt (whatever that is) and so invulnerable to the charge. And if anyone gets angry, I can just mewl about how I was joking. If they get really angry don't forget the English conquered us. So there. I'm a victim and can libel anyone four hundred years after a not terribly relevant fact because.....um, well, here's a joke. Which is the shorter book: Arab Suicide Bombers Over Twenty or Wars the Irish Won?
What fun.........Of course, I have nothing but the highest respect for.........those genocidal thugs. Why don't you believe me????
I will not dignify the above statements with an attempt to rationalize them. Jokes that demean a people are never really humorous. But, I have to ask, what was the point? |
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - July 23 2005 : 11:32:13 AM
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From the National Geographic. About Britain, not Ireland. Still....
One such change is the emergence of a Celtic identity in Britain. There are no historical references to Celts in ancient Britain.
Miles explained that "Celts" was a name applied to tribes in Gaul—modern-day France—though their language shared the same root as those spoken by British tribes.
"In the 18th and 19th centuries, as Ireland, Wales, and Scotland started to assert national identity, they began to talk about themselves as Celts," Miles added.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/07/0719_050719_britishgene_2.html |
Dark Cloud
copyright RL MacLeod
darkcloud@darkendeavors.com
www.darkendeavors.com
www.boulderlout.com |
Edited by - Dark Cloud on July 23 2005 12:32:39 PM |
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wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
Posted - July 23 2005 : 2:03:35 PM
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Oh do wake up DC.I posted substantially the same information On June 6th last.
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - July 23 2005 : 8:56:11 PM
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| You claimed the Irish as Celts, did you not? Do you not? They are not, according to this. I don't necessarily buy it, but then I said I don't think the term Celt means anything, anyway. Sorta pulls the rug out from all those folks marketing Celtic music, by which they mean Irish, Scot, Manx, or Welch, and it turns out none of us are. So much for our Celtic heritage. Insofar as any of this stuff means anything. |
Dark Cloud
copyright RL MacLeod
darkcloud@darkendeavors.com
www.darkendeavors.com
www.boulderlout.com |
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wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
Posted - July 25 2005 : 1:02:06 PM
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You claimed the Irish as Celts,
Well whatever about the Irish they say Dubliners are descended from Cromwellian troopers and prostitutes.Hardy stock yeh?
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - December 18 2005 : 8:19:17 PM
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“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
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wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
Posted - December 19 2005 : 2:29:09 PM
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AZ
Quality or quantity? |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - December 19 2005 : 3:16:37 PM
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Wild
Both actually it is interesting to watch you and DC discuss differernt topics. I am impressed. |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
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Ireland, Native Americans, and LBH
