| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
bhist
Lt. Colonel
Status: offline |
 Posted - July 24 2004 : 12:14:22 PM
|
I think this subject is warrant of another topic, so I begin with a quote from D.C. in another thread.
quote:
" As much as I dislike Sklenar, he DID address this issue (Benteen’s scout to the left) and gave an almost rational explanation: that Custer's first thought was the small village by the lone teepee, and Benteen's scout in force would, in fact, discover the LBH situation and come in from the left on that small village. Theory hampered by impossibility of surprise, the 'village' wasn't, really, but a tomb and the mourners leaving, and had Benteen uncovered Sioux in those badlands you could not fight a cavalry battle there anyway. Still, Custer was not a fool, and he obviously knew he needed all the men he could, and it's to be doubted he sent Benteen on a pointless mission knowingly.
But I cannot figure out what the point was."
Could the answer be, CYA? Custer was in the hot seat. He had not been promoted for over a decade, and he had Grant pissed at him. Was Custer becoming insecure? Was he loosing confidence in himself? Now, I have no evidence to support this, however, human nature is the same today as it was back then in regards to people's careers.
There is no evidence that Custer wanted to be president, however, he was an ambitious man and so he had other plans (lecture circuit, or maybe a promotion in the army). He had to look back on his career and see where he messed-up royally. Courts martial in 1867, the Elliot episode, pissing off Grant.
Custer was a smart man, he had to know that if he screwed up during this campaign, he'd most likely loose his commission, the lecture circuit would go out the door and what publisher would want him then?
Desperation drives the human being to do unusual things. Custer made a lot of decisions on June 25 that none of us can answer. Could it be the decisions he made were driven for CYA?
Edited to clarify CYA --
I'm not rehashing the old myth of Custer wanting one last victory. Instead, I'm wondering if he was driven by more desperate means -- If that is true, then his decisions would be even more clouded compared to if he wanted a victory for ambitious purposes.
|
Warmest Regards,
Bob
www.vonsworks.com
www.friendslittlebighorn.com
www.friendsnezpercebattlefields.org |
Edited by - bhist on July 24 2004 1:54:53 PM
|
|
|
joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 24 2004 : 10:13:57 PM
|
| I believe that you have a valid point. After the glory he achieved during the war, Custer's star was obviously at a nadir. It is possible that Custer was convinced that he believed that an overwhelming success against the Plains Indians was necessary to restore his status to a level that he was comfortable with. |
  |
|
|
El Crab
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - July 24 2004 : 11:14:36 PM
|
| What is CYA? |
I came. I saw. I took 300 pictures. |
|
|
|
bhist
Lt. Colonel
Status: offline |
|
|
El Crab
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - July 25 2004 : 06:34:46 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by bhist
CYA = Cover Your Ass
Ahh, just couldn't figure out the first word. |
I came. I saw. I took 300 pictures. |
|
|
|
joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 26 2004 : 10:16:49 PM
|
| El Crab, you did not figure out the CYA acronym? You are my hero! You need to go to the "damn" battlefield because you have never been. |
|
|
|
Brent
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - July 27 2004 : 12:59:11 PM
|
I suppose CYA played a part..
Part also was Custers desire to do the "job" assigned..and to accept any glory that might come his way.
Part also was not to "fail" to do the job assigned.
I can only imagine the hue and cry if something like this would have occurred:
Custer learns of the big village--maybe even bigger than already he thinks it is. He realizes that he isn't sure of the terrain, isn't sure of the exact "shape" of the village, isn't sure of the excact odds he's facing. His men are tired. Maybe 600 men aren't enough. He decides to wait for Gibbon, Terry, or Crook. Meanwhile the Indians certainly "spot" him and the whole village moves off unattacked and unpursued.
Imagine the headlines in the papers!!
"CUSTER LETS INDIANS ESCAPE"
"INDIANS BEFUDDLE CUSTER"
"LETHARGIC CUSTER WASTES GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY"
"IS CUSTER THROUGH??"
And so on. So I guess he's caught between a rock and a hard place and as anxious to avoid failure as he is anxious for success--he attacks. |
|
|
|
movingrobewoman
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - July 27 2004 : 2:37:26 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by bhist
I'm not rehashing the old myth of Custer wanting one last victory. Instead, I'm wondering if he was driven by more desperate means -- If that is true, then his decisions would be even more clouded compared to if he wanted a victory for ambitious purposes.
Interesting topic, and for me, it certainly sheds light on the enigma Custer really seemed to be. Most of us would probably look at his situation during the Belknap Hearings in the Spring of 1876 as a time when it appears, at least to my thinking, that Custer and his reputation can really go no lower.
Then there are those who actually think Custer found victory against Grant (perhaps one of the causes he had to abandon dreams of a third term) and his crooked administration, saying that Custer "acted" his tearful performance to Terry in order to accompany the Seventh. I don't agree with that ...
but ...
What strikes me as odd, is that if Custer felt he was at a desperate nadir, why is he saying out of the side of his mouth in regards to Terry that (not unlike the situation with Stanley on the Yellowstone campaign) he would "cut loose" and "swing clear" of his leadership? Like nothing in DC had an impact?!
Maybe LBH really was just an example of a man who didn't learn a lesson--or perhaps simply he was a true enigma.
Movingrobe |
movingrobe |
|
|
|
joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - July 28 2004 : 8:08:07 PM
|
It is not often that one gets an opportunity to personally infuriate the President of the U.S., as did GAC. The President is the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces. As a member of the military, GAC himself must have thought, "Oh man, I guess I blew it?"
Your question is understandable. How then, under such bleak circumstances, could the General side whisper his intent to "Cut loose" as soon as he had the opportunity? We may never know. If I may speculate for a moment, I would agree with you. The man was a "true enigma." |
|
|
|
movingrobewoman
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - July 29 2004 : 12:08:49 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
Your question is understandable. How then, under such bleak circumstances, could the General side whisper his intent to "Cut loose" as soon as he had the opportunity? We may never know. If I may speculate for a moment, I would agree with you. The man was a "true enigma."
But to take a moment to answer Bob's question, yeah, most of Custer's actions when leading the Seventh out of the supply depot until LBH seemed, IMHO, to be CYA. But his attitude towards his CO (Terry) does confuse ... 
Movingrobe |
movingrobe |
|
|
|
joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - August 20 2004 : 9:03:06 PM
|
| Yes, Custer's treatment of Terry, to whom he was indebted for so much, is puzzling. Perhaps his need to accomplish a great victory over the Plains Indians was so vital to every fiber of his being that he viewed Terry as just a means to achieve that goal. Stopped dead in his tracks by President Grant, only the man who was ultimately responsible for this mission possessed the clout to free the General from the manacles of presidential displeasure. His type "A" personality and, total faith in his martial abilities lead me to believe that CYA was the least motivating factor on his mind. Although I certainly agree with Bhist's opine regarding Custer's desperation, I do not believe that this posture motivated him to CYA. Desperation created by a critical reduction in pay, the end of a war that showered him in a deludge of accolades of merit, and the realization that his celebrity status was coming to an abrupt end was worrisome. However, when one truly believes, as Custer obviously did, that success was indubitable then the though of failure is non-existant. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
CYA
