| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Heavyrunner
Captain
USA
Status: offline |
 Posted - September 14 2004 : 7:34:40 PM
|
| Geez, people. It's too bad the battlefield isn't in Manhattan. However, you can probably get an espresso at the Crow trading post. |
Bob Bostwick |
  |
|
|
joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - September 14 2004 : 8:14:52 PM
|
Hear Ye, Hear Ye, Hear Ye
Being of sound mind and body (although I'm sure that one or two of you would disagree with that notion)Bhist is absolutely correct. Do not, if you care about your abdominal delectation, dine at the Purple Cow. I did and lived to rue the day that I did so! |
|
|
|
Heavyrunner
Captain
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - September 14 2004 : 8:34:49 PM
|
| Eat well. Bring Pepto Bismol. |
Bob Bostwick |
|
|
|
alfuso
Corporal
Status: offline |
Posted - September 19 2004 : 12:05:15 AM
|
"In this case, DC, I would have to agree with you. AND if burning the village and killing their horses were manners to force the unwilling back into the fold, then hostages were other good ways (at least in Custer's experience)to bring them hostiles to their neighborhood reservation agency. Whether Custer tried to take hostages in an attempted crossing at MTC or more likely at Ford D, we'll never know, but his past does allude to burning, some pillaging, horse-offing, and the taking of (preferably-ha!) fecund female hostages (Monaseetah)- "
That's "gravid" female hostage...
I'm sure a man of Victorian mores was hot to jump the bod of a 7.5 months pregnant girl...
Uh, yeah...
|
Deny Everything
Prepare to Panic |
|
|
|
movingrobewoman
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - September 19 2004 : 1:36:52 PM
|
Alfuso--
I'd suggest you learn a little about the meaning of "tongue in cheek" BEFORE you are forced to live the consequences of "foot in mouth."
Regards, |
movingrobe |
|
|
|
Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - September 19 2004 : 2:03:06 PM
|
But.....was Custer a man of 'Victorian mores?' Even Victoria wasn't a woman of 'Victorian mores.' She apparently loved sex with Albert, who was the real prude in the bed.
Virtually nobody was, in fact, a Victorian. It's a false image, like Potemkin villages. Men rutted with impunity, homosexual behavior was rife in Europe's militaries, and prostitution was like it's always been: prominent and there. Middle class women were frustrated and ignored and left with their kids all day.
Custer apparently shared affections with any numbers of women in the field and not. These stories don't all come from Benteen. A lovely but pregnant young woman would soon be a compliant and lovely young woman in custody. I have no clue if any of that is true about the two of them, but we can be sure that if Custer wanted her, he'd have her with minimum intrigue and not burdened with guilt or sense of sin. |
Dark Cloud
copyright RL MacLeod
darkcloud@darkendeavors.com
www.darkendeavors.com
www.boulderlout.com |
|
|
|
wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
Posted - September 19 2004 : 2:43:28 PM
|
| Totally off topic but would Waco rank alongside Wounded Knee ? |
|
|
|
Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
|
|
wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
Posted - September 20 2004 : 06:30:47 AM
|
Ok
[but it was a massacre of men,women and children carried out by the armed forces of the US] |
|
|
|
Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - September 20 2004 : 12:49:13 PM
|
Wounded Knee was combat utilizing the 7th Cavalry, a unit wisely chosen as likely to exercise restraint fifteen years after these same Sioux slaughtered killed about two hundred and fifty of them, a hope bolstered by the Regiment still employing many of the same officers and men from LBH.
The 7th was simply dying to open up and return the favor, and to everyone's surprise - in self defense, of course - they did, probably killed more of their own than the Indians during the effort.
Waco involved the ATF and later the FBI, both of whom crowned themselves on international television as incompetent poseurs. They borrowed armored vehicles and advice, but I'm not aware they used the military itself, nor are they referred to as among our military units (armed forces), but supposedly restrained by the shackles of police procedure and civilian law. To this day, I have not heard a convincing explanation as to what they thought they were doing, given they had bugged the compound and could hear everything. Ruby Ridge was another high point for law enforcement.
The FBI has been full of itself for so long that they are often dangerous and incompetent. They're simply too big to be good at everything or, perhaps, anything. Setting aside the pros and cons of white separatist militia criminals (RR) or deranged patriarchal statuatory rapists (Koresh at minimum) armed to the teeth, these operations were just hamfisted and badly done. There were no medical or fire units at Waco brought up till way too late, and a genuine lack of minimal imagination for worst case scenario which, given the children, was very, very bad and very, very real.
My personal suspicion is that they - meaning Director Freeh - took advantage of a new administration to try and score a big propoganda coup at Waco to compensate for RR's dead infant and mother, show up the ATF, and again make a bid for the FBI to control all law enforcement. They still try this, and have teams all over the world while so many things here are bolluxed. Even among those like myself who thought the effort was needed, the level of competence is so low it really defies much comment. |
Dark Cloud
copyright RL MacLeod
darkcloud@darkendeavors.com
www.darkendeavors.com
www.boulderlout.com |
Edited by - Dark Cloud on September 20 2004 12:50:29 PM |
|
|
|
wILD I
Brigadier General
Ireland
Status: offline |
Posted - September 20 2004 : 4:41:20 PM
|
Interesting DC thanks.
And Timmy McV paid them back?
|
|
|
|
Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - September 20 2004 : 6:33:46 PM
|
McVeigh was our Taliban recruit equivilent: young, bored, not seeing much future, might as well kill some people, of whom a few might/sorta/could be construed as responsible in a vague associative way for the things that annoyed him in theory.
Palestinians taking it in the chops from Israel? Kill some Kenyans. Islam not receiving the respect it's due? Kill 3000 Americans. They see no flaw in the logic.
It's quite real to suggest that if any of these guys had had a girlfriend - ever - they might not be so pointlessly and counterproductively violent.
Killing Randy Weaver's kid and wife was awful, and all those kids and parents held against their weak and confused will at Waco burned alive was awful. Nothing for it but to kill a bunch of kindergarten children and utterly innocent Oklahoma office workers to make his .......point. |
Dark Cloud
copyright RL MacLeod
darkcloud@darkendeavors.com
www.darkendeavors.com
www.boulderlout.com |
|
|
|
alfuso
Corporal
Status: offline |
Posted - September 21 2004 : 3:41:05 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by movingrobewoman
Alfuso--
I'd suggest you learn a little about the meaning of "tongue in cheek" BEFORE you are forced to live the consequences of "foot in mouth."
Regards,
Sorry, deear, I can't understand you when you talk with your mouth full of your foot...
|
Deny Everything
Prepare to Panic |
|
|
|
alfuso
Corporal
Status: offline |
Posted - September 21 2004 : 3:49:36 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Cloud
But.....was Custer a man of 'Victorian mores?' Even Victoria wasn't a woman of 'Victorian mores.' She apparently loved sex with Albert, who was the real prude in the bed.
Virtually nobody was, in fact, a Victorian. It's a false image, like Potemkin villages. Men rutted with impunity, homosexual behavior was rife in Europe's militaries, and prostitution was like it's always been: prominent and there. Middle class women were frustrated and ignored and left with their kids all day.
Custer apparently shared affections with any numbers of women in the field and not. These stories don't all come from Benteen. A lovely but pregnant young woman would soon be a compliant and lovely young woman in custody. I have no clue if any of that is true about the two of them, but we can be sure that if Custer wanted her, he'd have her with minimum intrigue and not burdened with guilt or sense of sin.
I was refering mostly to how pregnant women were generally perceived.
I just can't see him humping one. Pregnant women then usually sequestered themselves when they became "gravid" (I daresay, MRW). So, perhaps seeing an obviously well-along young woman, out in the open, so to speak, was a massive turn-on.
I just don't see it, myself.
A lovely and pregnant young woman would soon be a lovely young mother in custody. And she sure does seem to have gotten round the camp. Of course, when you are the Main Man's Main Squeeze, life is good;
as good a reason as any and could be milked for a lot of favors.
|
Deny Everything
Prepare to Panic |
|
|
|
joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - September 21 2004 : 10:06:52 PM
|
| Excuse me while I regurgitate. |
|
|
|
BJMarkland
Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - September 22 2004 : 05:31:09 AM
|
Err, guys, we have wandered drastically off-topic. The pros & cons of the FBI are better discussed elsewhere. Custer's love life, or lack thereof, really has no point here either unless we can prove that he and his men were the victims of an angry husband/father and assorted kinfolks.
Best of wishes,
Billy
P.S. Wiggs, don't forget to clean up after yourself. |
|
|
|
movingrobewoman
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - September 22 2004 : 4:03:57 PM
|
Whoa, Billy ... take a few deep breaths and step away from the screen ...
I agree with you--GAC's sex life doesn't bear any importance at all to the unfolding of the debacle at LBH.
There HAS always been a question (in my mind), however, whether GAC sought to take women hostages either at MTC or Ford D and once in custody, then enjoy the benefits (both martial and physical)they COULD offer. Of course, GAC was probably going for, if that is what was in his mind, children and older males, as well--to be used as a tool to get the "hostiles" back to the Rez, or simply his own survival, if he knew that his battalion was sunk.
Hostages seemed to offer certain conveniences on both sides of the Indian Wars.
Regards,
(I became a sargent yesterday ... unfortunately, the Post Adjutant informs me that according to the Lt. Colonel, I have not yet qualified for housing) |
movingrobe |
Edited by - movingrobewoman on September 22 2004 4:05:35 PM |
|
|
|
joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - September 22 2004 : 9:07:30 PM
|
Undoubtedly, Custer's primary goal was to bring the recalcitrant Indians to bay for immediate transfer to reservations. A secondary goal was to achieve this mission with a minimum lost of life. The warriors would not have endangered the captured women and children by a continued force of issues.
Is it possible that a third goal, ensconed in the souls of certain troopers, was to engage in the immoral sampling of the more captivating Indian belles? Such dispicable acts occurred many times before. |
Edited by - joseph wiggs on September 22 2004 9:10:29 PM |
|
|
|
Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - September 24 2004 : 08:13:35 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
Is it possible that a third goal, ensconed in the souls of certain troopers, was to engage in the immoral sampling of the more captivating Indian belles?
Kids, I'm disappointed. The next time ol' man Wiggs suckers you into his house with chocolate to proof-read another pile of his posts you need to put the rag down on this kind of pseudo-Victorian heavy breathing. This is so dainty it would have made even Little Nell wretch.
R. Larsen
|
|
|
|
movingrobewoman
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - September 24 2004 : 2:55:54 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
Is it possible that a third goal, ensconed in the souls of certain troopers, was to engage in the immoral sampling of the more captivating Indian belles? Such dispicable acts occurred many times before.
Joe:
Rather than using the word "goal" in this circumstance, I would employ the term "side benefit." For a cavalry unit out and about in the wilds of the Dakota/Montana territories, a little illicit, although not technically illicit from the point of view of the Anglo (funny how those Victorian mores didn't apply in the real world) mindset (or ours at the time, either), noogie with a female hostage would be exactly that.
A nice side benefit. But I, crusty old "historical fiction" writer that I am, don't think Custer drove his battalion towards MTC or Ford D thinking: "Well, I haven't gotten any in weeks ..." He was out to accomplish the mission given to him by Terry, or the one many of us think he was assuming--chasing Glory or whatever drove him.
Unfortunately, Larson is so caught up in haughty exacting lawyerisms, he neglected to make the most important point--that in this circumstance, Joe, "goal" was prolly not the most fortunate of word choices--in this case, he's taking AWAY from the discussion, rather than ADDING to it.
LBH is a passionate subject for many of us, especially the Native peoples (of which you are one and I am not) that were both immediately and forever affected by it. It is hard NOT to keep that passion aside--and I can't fault you that.
Hokahey! |
movingrobe |
|
|
|
joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - September 24 2004 : 8:49:57 PM
|
I have long ago discarded Larsen's comments as the rattling of a little boy, long lost in a man's world.
Movingrobewoman is quite correct when she suggests a more appropriate term may have been used other than "goal" to define the ulterior motives of some of the troopers, certainly not all of them. A politically correct term such as "side benefit" may have made the message more palatable to the sensitive.
Although, I must say, semantics were of a minor concern to the victims who suffered this injustice. I am certain that there are some who feel that my perceptions are biased, there are a few who may feel I over indulge in "Purple Prose", there may even be a small faction (I hope)that wish I would get of the forum and stay off.
Right or wrong, I appreciate those members who allow me the opportunity to express my perceptions. I thank Movingrobewoman for her thoughtful suggestion. Markland, too, shared his opinion of the "Indian Perspective" with me. BHist, also, offered sound advice which I appreciate. To these wonderful people who are willing to agree to disagree with maturity and consideration concerning topics of discussion, I say thank you again for giving me the oppoutunity to do so.
As for the insignificant, miniscule clique of individuals who are so consumed with the need to taunt, smear, and depreciate the thoughts of others, diminishing the significance of this forum; I offer my sympathy. |
|
|
|
Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - September 24 2004 : 10:18:59 PM
|
| Again, much of what you say is untrue. That some, including myself, shred you with regularity is in no way an indication of how others are treated. You can't hide within fictional multitudes, Wiggs. It's just you. You're the only one who lies. |
Dark Cloud
copyright RL MacLeod
darkcloud@darkendeavors.com
www.darkendeavors.com
www.boulderlout.com |
|
|
|
Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - September 25 2004 : 12:37:19 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by movingrobewoman
Unfortunately, Larson is so caught up in haughty exacting lawyerisms, he neglected to make the most important point--that in this circumstance, Joe, "goal" was prolly not the most fortunate of word choices--in this case, he's taking AWAY from the discussion, rather than ADDING to it.
Wiggs asked whether it was possible the soldiers were chasing the Indian women so they could whore them out. I didn't think his question, phrased so daintily, deserved anything else but ridicule. There was more wrong with it than one mere word: the whole substance was cracked.
R. Larsen
|
|
|
|
joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - September 26 2004 : 10:20:08 PM
|
I have been very fortunate to discover a heretofore, undiscovered, cache of documents authored by the famous sage, Confucius:
"If one ceases to feed the hungry skunk, he will soon drop his odious redolence elsewhere."
Stay tuned for further revelations of wisdom.    |
Edited by - joseph wiggs on September 26 2004 10:24:40 PM |
|
|
|
Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - September 27 2004 : 6:29:44 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
Stay tuned for further revelations of wisdom.
Oh joy, more spamming.
Can't Rich just up Wiggs to Commander-in-Chief so we can all be spared his avalanche of witless rank-padding posts?
R. Larsen |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
LSH
