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El Crab
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
 Posted - January 13 2004 : 01:50:43 AM
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So, I've read enough about this to wonder why these are confused for each other. The 28 or so E Company soldiers have not been found that are supposed to be buried near the headwall of a ravine. Several books, namely To Hell With Honor by Sklenar (read) and The Mystery of E Troop by Michno (not read), have said the ravine in question is not Deep Ravine, but rather Cemetery Ravine. Deep Ravine is obviously deep, but is Cemetery Ravine? I have not been there, can anyone point me to some pictures that show the depth of CR? What are your thoughts on this topic?
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I came. I saw. I took 300 pictures. |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - January 13 2004 : 12:58:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by El Crab
So, I've read enough about this to wonder why these are confused for each other. The 28 or so E Company soldiers have not been found that are supposed to be buried near the headwall of a ravine. Several books, namely To Hell With Honor by Sklenar (read) and The Mystery of E Troop by Michno (not read), have said the ravine in question is not Deep Ravine, but rather Cemetery Ravine. Deep Ravine is obviously deep, but is Cemetery Ravine? I have not been there, can anyone point me to some pictures that show the depth of CR? What are your thoughts on this topic?
I don't think they are really confused with each other; Michno is the only one who has argued for Cemetery Ravine being the "true" Deep Ravine, but he has made few converts. This is largely because of the weakness of his own arguments and the specious reasoning therein. His misinterpretations of the accounts often appear wilful, most famously his contention that Daniel Kanipe's account supports the Cemetery Ravine argument. Kanipe is one who actually gave his observations on the ground to Walter Camp. We have several maps of the battlefield, some made shortly after the event, and all note Deep Ravine --- for obvious reasons, since it is one of the most notable terrain features in the area. These same maps also place the bodies of E Co. there. I'm writing from memory here, but I think Michno even tried to present some of these maps as supporting his belief. He is a man of great faith.
Cemetery Ravine doesn't really match the features of Deep Ravine; it's more gentle, sloping --- less noticeable. It never even had a name until Michno came along. Gray called it "ravine X" in his last book. Since the testimony of the men about the deep ravine with the bodies doesn't really match what we see in Cemetery Ravine --- not deep or steep enough --- Michno was forced to argue that the statements of these men were simply imaginary, the result of shell shock, etc. This wouldn't explain away, though, the accounts of the men who came with Gibbon, which are pretty consistent with those of the Custer survivors.
R. Larsen
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El Crab
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - January 13 2004 : 4:46:35 PM
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| I believe Sklenar in To Hell With Honor also says they were killed in CR. |
I came. I saw. I took 300 pictures. |
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movingrobewoman
Lt. Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - January 16 2004 : 5:38:03 PM
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I took special note of Cemetery and Deep Ravines when I went to the battlefield last year. From the perspective of a "last stand" on LSH, a run to Deep Ravine, to me, seemed rather problematic--it is not exactly close (although might have provided better cover, as it is quite deep), and one must, from LSH, run down one hill and up another to get to it. From LSH, Cemetery Ravine is a much quicker "escape" route. Now of course, I was standing there, not taking fire from hordes of warriors, and was able to think very, very clearly. However, Deep Ravine works better if you believe that E troop bolted directly from Cemetery Ridge, rather than LSH, I photographed how the markers are aligned and they line up perfectly to the south (east?) from the National Cemetery ... of course, a lot of this is based upon whether you believe the Ford D theory ... but those are the impressions I garnered from the battlefield. I intend to spend a lot of time on the Deep Ravine trail this June to photograph and record.
Moving Robe Woman |
movingrobe |
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Halmyers
Private
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - January 18 2004 : 10:11:07 PM
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"Lakota Noon" by G. Michno has quit a bit of information on cemetery
ravine and also has a picture of the area.
Hal |
Thanks
Hal Myers |
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Cemetery Ravine v. Deep Ravine
