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lorenzo G.
Captain
Italy
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 Posted - May 07 2004 : 12:08:36 PM
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Well I can't really say what I think of Means thoughts, would be too heavy for a public forum. Political reasons, however, would have never to miss the respect of death soldiers .. . |
If it is to be my lot to fall in the service of my country and my country's rights I will have no regrets.
Custer |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
 Posted - May 22 2004 : 4:37:52 PM
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"We've caught then napping boys!"
Needless to say, we can not know for a fact exactly what General Custer meant when he shouted those immortal words. We can, however, speculate as to what he may have meant. Upon arriving upon the bluffs that Reno would later occupy, Custer's view encompassed the southern portion of the village, in the valley below. His view was obstructed to his south by dense trees and foilage. The same held true in a northern direction which restricked his view of the northern end of the village. These points are important in that they prevent Custer from realizing two critical facts; Reno's current position(now heading toward the southern portion of the village)and, the actual length of the village. What he did observe at this point is very telling. Hundreds of Indian old men, women, and children were fleeing north away from the approach of Reno, and no warriors were in sight. They had, obviously, rushed south to meet Reno. Thus Custer surmised his ability to capture the unprotected, non-combatants which would render the warriors helpless. They would not endanger the safety of thier families by attacking soldiers who held their loved ones hostage. In other words, the plan worked boys, they fell for it. They went for my feint of Reno's charge while we will sweep down into the village and grab up the women and children. Like I said, we can only speculate. |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
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Posted - May 22 2004 : 5:58:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
[brHis view was What he did observe at this point is very telling. Hundreds of Indian old men, women, and children were fleeing north away from the approach of Reno, and no warriors were in sight. They had, obviously, rushed south to meet Reno.
Joseph, how do you know Custer observed this?
Martin, who is in some way or another the source for the "napping" quip, said that at that point the village was quiet: "There were no bucks to be seen; all we could see was some squaws and children playing and a few dogs and ponies" (Graham 290). He testified in almost the exact same words at the Reno Court of Inquiry. He said nothing, nothing at all, of seeing anybody in flight, let alone "hundreds" of old men, women, and whatever else you could fit into the grab bag.
Joseph, just which part of your anatomy did you pull this "telling" sight out of?
R. Larsen
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Edited by - Anonymous Poster8169 on May 22 2004 6:02:37 PM |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - May 23 2004 : 9:01:12 PM
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| R. larsen, you are correct regarding Sgt. Martini's testimony. Not once did he say that hundreds of women and children were fleeing north away from Reno's charge. Martini, a resent immigrant from Italy with a weak command of the English lanquage and a limited comprehension of military tactics would not possess the knowledge to process the information that lay before him. In other words, a village devoid of warriors was highly unusual and can be best explained as a result of Reno's charge, and their response to that charge. A short time later, the General's suspicions were confirmed from atop Weir Point or Sharp Shooter Ridge (the actual point of this observation is vague)when his appearence caused further consternation and mass flight of noncombatants. This exodus was confirmed by Indian statements. |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - May 24 2004 : 10:45:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
R. larsen, you are correct regarding Sgt. Martini's testimony. Not once did he say that hundreds of women and children were fleeing north away from Reno's charge. Martini, a resent immigrant from Italy with a weak command of the English lanquage and a limited comprehension of military tactics would not possess the knowledge to process the information that lay before him. In other words, a village devoid of warriors was highly unusual and can be best explained as a result of Reno's charge, and their response to that charge.
Where are the "hundreds" of fleeing old men, women and children that Custer supposedly saw when he said "We caught them napping"?
R. Larsen
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 19 2004 : 9:02:53 PM
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I realize this post in late in arriving. Somehow I forgot to respond. I am very much bewildered by your inability to understand my comments. Custer views the village from Sharpshooter ridge, the portion of the village that he observes is deserted. Knowing that Reno is charging, he makes an assumption, a valid one I might Add, the warriors are rushing north to meet Reno, the non-combatants are rushing in the OPPOSITE DIRECTION SEEKING SAFETY. It is at that point that he shouted those famous words. He made these observations himself. The elevantion and distance of Sharpshooter ridge enabled him a much better view then the previous one at the bluffs. He could attack now or delay the attack and capture the fleeing villagers, he chose the latter. Still with me? Good!
Shortly thereafter, Custer observes the missing women, children, and old men seeking shelter in ravines, woods, or any place of perceived safety. He needed Benteen's additional troops to effect the capture of such a large group, thus he waited. This question was answered in the previous thread. |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
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Posted - June 19 2004 : 10:07:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
I realize this post in late in arriving. Somehow I forgot to respond. I am very much bewildered by your inability to understand my comments.
I understand them fine. The problem is they're not true.
quote:
Custer views the village from Sharpshooter ridge, the portion of the village that he observes is deserted. Knowing that Reno is charging, he makes an assumption, a valid one I might Add, the warriors are rushing north to meet Reno, the non-combatants are rushing in the OPPOSITE DIRECTION SEEKING SAFETY. It is at that point that he shouted those famous words. He made these observations himself. The elevantion and distance of Sharpshooter ridge enabled him a much better view then the previous one at the bluffs. He could attack now or delay the attack and capture the fleeing villagers, he chose the latter. Still with me? Good!
You claimed that when Custer said "We caught them napping," he was looking at "hundreds" of fleeing old men and women, etc. What is your evidence for that? What is your evidence that he saw anybody fleeing in the village?
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Shortly thereafter, Custer observes the missing women, children, and old men seeking shelter in ravines, woods, or any place of perceived safety. He needed Benteen's additional troops to effect the capture of such a large group, thus he waited. This question was answered in the previous thread.
No it wasn't. You ducked it, and are still ducking it. You're still claiming that he was looking at fleers when he said those words, and for all your bloviating, have provided no evidence that such is true.
R. Larsen
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 21 2004 : 10:28:23 PM
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| 'Honi soit qui mal y pense' |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 21 2004 : 10:43:29 PM
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Ducking it in old French Garter mottos is still ducking it. Validate your claims.
R. Larsen |
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Russel Means on Custer's Last Stand
