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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
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 Posted - June 04 2004 : 1:06:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
David Crockett,the man, was a victim of his own reputation. Seen by his peers as "hero" of the common man, he desperately attempted to live up to that image. He did not always succeed. Davy, the immortal, performed every wonderful deed that one could imagine, to include swinging "Ole Betsy" on the ramparts until he was finally overcome. The death of the Crockett you believe in is dependant upon your personal need. Hero or human? Sadly, reality is often an abrupt departure from myth.
You've been watching too many movies. In life Crockett was a witty, self-deprecating man, who made no bones about how glad he was to get out of the Creek War, and who savored the life he was therefore able to enjoy, "which I should not have done if I had kept fooling along in war, and got used up at it". He certainly had a more realistic view of life and death than some of his modern-day "admirers", who too often project their own fears of self-image onto him.
R. Larsen
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 04 2004 : 8:50:51 PM
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| Do yourself a favor, do not presuppose anything about my habits or lifestyle. You can't possibly know how many movies I have watched in my lifetime. Therefore, your statement is presumptions, false, without merit, arrogant, and not founded on facts. David was a man of his surroundings, poor, humble and, as you say, "self-depracating", which only served to endear him to his constituents(for a while). I find your unsolicited sarcasm pathetic and a little sad. Your "wit?" is very indicative of one who is saddled with a poltroonish personality. |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 04 2004 : 11:17:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
Do yourself a favor, do not presuppose anything about my habits or lifestyle. You can't possibly know how many movies I have watched in my lifetime. Therefore, your statement is presumptions, false, without merit, arrogant, and not founded on facts. David was a man of his surroundings, poor, humble and, as you say, "self-depracating", which only served to endear him to his constituents(for a while). I find your unsolicited sarcasm pathetic and a little sad. Your "wit?" is very indicative of one who is saddled with a poltroonish personality.
Get over yourself, Wiggs. Claiming that Crockett was "desperately" trying to live up to his image, etc., is lifted straight out of fiction and movie scripts. It works fine there; Billy Bob made good use of it; but as history it's just made up.
There was nothing sarcastic about that post of mine. It is curious and strange how many people with fragilely explosive egos are attracted to events like this. For my part I find all the histrionics tiresome.
I do think it's very sweet how indignant you are that someone actually dared to call you --- "unsolicited"! --- about some of your claims on a public board. I'm kind, so I'm just bemused. Everyone else is laughing.
R. Larsen
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 05 2004 : 8:03:20 PM
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| Gollum, Gollum, Gollum |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 06 2004 : 1:27:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
Gollum, Gollum, Gollum
No whining, Joseph.
R. Larsen
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 06 2004 : 10:00:16 PM
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| A man makes a comment about a personal issue regarding a human being that he knows nothing about. He then, arrogantly assumes a position that is unverifiable and has nothing to do with issues. This is followed with your statement, "stop whining Wiggs." If your crass remarks were not so pathetic, they would be amusining. Now that I think of it, you are amusing. Gollum! |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 07 2004 : 4:44:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
A man makes a comment about a personal issue regarding a human being that he knows nothing about. He then, arrogantly assumes a position that is unverifiable and has nothing to do with issues. This is followed with your statement, "stop whining Wiggs." If your crass remarks were not so pathetic, they would be amusining. Now that I think of it, you are amusing. Gollum!
You're still whining.
You made a claim about Crockett --- a "personal" claim if you like --- but once its accuracy was put to question, you swiftly bailed, and made no attempt to back it up with any sort of evidence. Everything else since then has just been a smokescreen of self-pity and adolescent rage designed to cover over that reality.
R. Larsen
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Edited by - Anonymous Poster8169 on June 07 2004 5:10:04 PM |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 09 2004 : 10:40:07 PM
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| And I'm still saying, Gollum, Gollum, Gollum. Good night Smeagol, my precious. |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 13 2004 : 9:12:01 PM
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| Please explain to me, oh wise one, how I was able to make a "personal claim" about Crockett. I never met the man. I wish I could have but, regrettably, he died before I was born. Any information I proffered, regarding this incident, I obtained through reading. Secondly, "self-pity?" Since you have no idea of my mental status your statement is incomprehensible and silly. You are truly a very amusing character. However, I must admit you post well. |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 14 2004 : 4:25:48 PM
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Originally posted by joseph wiggs
Please explain to me, oh wise one, how I was able to make a "personal claim" about Crockett. I never met the man. I wish I could have but, regrettably, he died before I was born.
Claiming Crockett "desperately attempted to live up to [his] image" sounds personal to me. How neat that you can sense desperation and self-image angst across the gulf of 150 years.
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Any information I proffered, regarding this incident, I obtained through reading.
Reading what? Validate yourself. It wouldn't surprise me if some secondary book makes this claim, which you may have blindly copied (there's no lack of BS told about Crockett) but it would fascinate me to learn what evidence this assertion is based on.
quote:
Secondly, "self-pity?" Since you have no idea of my mental status your statement is incomprehensible and silly. You are truly a very amusing character. However, I must admit you post well.
Well thanks. But it takes a lack of irony to complain about being called self-pitying, as you resurrect a week's old dead thread, and gripe about comments which you had obviously already read days ago, when you shrieked "Gollum". And then after several days of wringing your hands or whatever you do when upset, rail back and complain about how I spoke to you. Silly indeed.
R. Larsen
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 15 2004 : 10:04:35 PM
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| How does one "shriek" in cyber space. Secondly, are you stating that you have actually observed me "wringing my hands." Mr. Larsen, I do not respect you, I honestly believe you to be a true idiot and, henceforth, I will not engage in further diologue with you. At least Dark Cloud (your alter-ego) makes sense sometimes. You Sir, are not a gentleman. Farewell! |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 15 2004 : 11:39:22 PM
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Originally posted by joseph wiggs
How does one "shriek" in cyber space.
By posting whiny inanities.
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Secondly, are you stating that you have actually observed me "wringing my hands."
No. Learn to read.
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Mr. Larsen, I do not respect you, I honestly believe you to be a true idiot and, henceforth, I will not engage in further diologue with you. At least Dark Cloud (your alter-ego) makes sense sometimes. You Sir, are not a gentleman. Farewell!
Wiggs, for your own sake, stop humiliating yourself. It's embarassing to watch a grown man rant and wail like a four year old. If you want dialogue with anybody, you need to stop lying and BSing people. It's basic courtesy, and, in discussing history, utterly necessary.
R. Larsen
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 16 2004 : 3:28:52 PM
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| I changed my mind, I do want to play with you. By the way, your usage of "BSing" comes precariously close to profanity. Please be careful as we desperately need your enlightenment so that we will know how to think and live the Larsen/Dark Cloud way. (smile) |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 16 2004 : 8:34:19 PM
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It won't be much sport, seeing as how you play like the 2003 Detroit Tigers, but welcome back from your short-lived mutehood anyway. Care to substantiate your claims about Crockett? You might even impress by recanting all the BS you've tossed onto the board like a chimp in a zoo the last two months.
R. Larsen
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 17 2004 : 10:08:08 PM
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Larsen, you are a vulgar, crass, uncouth, spineless little boy. Your comments do little towards portraying you as an adult. Although you are probably a balding, old man ancient in years, you are emotionally stunted.
However, there are several good books about Crockett, Travis, and Bowie. I suggest you read one of them. |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 18 2004 : 9:15:10 PM
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Originally posted by joseph wiggs
Larsen, you are a vulgar, crass, uncouth, spineless little boy. Your comments do little towards portraying you as an adult. Although you are probably a balding, old man ancient in years, you are emotionally stunted.
And you're a liar demonstrably ignorant in the subjects which you pontificate on, and who, when challenged, can resort to nothing but whiny and self-destructive insults.
quote:
However, there are several good books about Crockett, Travis, and Bowie. I suggest you read one of them.
I've read a few, though other than Shackford's "Crockett" and Davis's trilogy-in-one, there are no other comprehensive biographies of any of them really worth a bean.
Don't fool yourself into thinking that no one notices how relentlessly you dodge any effort to defend your views. Why, in that case, you spend so much time on these boards is a mystery you might care to fetishize over.
R. Larsen
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - June 19 2004 : 9:34:30 PM
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| May I pontificate on this, you are an insignificant Little P*** Ant. |
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BJMarkland
Colonel
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - July 30 2004 : 8:30:33 PM
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Methinks Wiggs is moving into the dreaded "offensive circle" position. Watch out Larsen and don't charge blindly through the high grass.
Wiggs, in one of your posts, you referenced TOS rules regarding no profanity. How does that square with your P*** ant comment bucky?
Wiggs, best of wishes for your continued contributions to the general hilarity of the reading world.
Billy |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - October 16 2004 : 9:10:23 PM
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| Another belated post, forgive me. Once again, I just realized an opportunity to view the Thorton film. Is it not ironic that the portrayal of Crockett, by Thorton, generally conforms to my personal perspectives posted earlier. Any man who is made a legend in his own time, as was "Davy" is subjected to enormous and, unrealistic expectations from the everyday man. |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - October 16 2004 : 10:26:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
Another belated post, forgive me. Once again, I just realized an opportunity to view the Thorton film. Is it not ironic that the portrayal of Crockett, by Thorton, generally conforms to my personal perspectives posted earlier. Any man who is made a legend in his own time, as was "Davy" is subjected to enormous and, unrealistic expectations from the everyday man.
No, it's not ironic. As I said at the time, your picture is pure Hollywood. What is the basis for it in history?
R. Larsen
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - November 08 2004 : 3:36:05 PM
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The Motion pictures of today that are based on historical events are often (not always) thoroughly researched to ascertain actual facts pertaining to what actually occurred. The sophistication of today's audiences, and its search for a more "balanced" presentation of history makes this perspective possible. This ideology is reflective in the vast amounts of money movie executives are willing to spend to obtain authenticity in their recreation of backgrounds, buildings, etc.
The term "Pure Hollywood" does not neccesarily carry the negative implications so richly deserved by past productions. The Passion, The Alamo, and hopefully the up-coming production of Alexander the Great, offer a balanced mixture of "fact" with poetic-license. |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - November 09 2004 : 5:17:39 PM
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I can't think of any recent movie that is all that factual, or faithful to its sources --- for that is what we really mean when we talk about history. The idea that modern audiences are more sophisticated than they were in the past, or that they especially desire a "balanced" presentation of facts, is risible --- and utterly lacking in proof. It's a movie, not a lecture in history; it's safe to say that all anybody really wants from it is a good story. Only a moron would try to extract history from these productions. I don't know what you mean by "balanced," but yes, "The Passion" does share the same stigmata of Hollywood story-boarding as does "The Alamo". Which is not a problem, per se; movies operate under different rules than documentaries or written history. But you're bloviating when you try to make these films into something they are not.
Steering back to the original subject. Do you have any sources to back up your claims about Crockett?
R. Larsen
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Edited by - Anonymous Poster8169 on November 09 2004 5:23:56 PM |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - November 11 2004 : 9:43:56 PM
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| Larsen, I just spent a 1/2 hour writing a detailed response to your last post. I then erased it. I realized that that your way of thinking is at the edge, where the shoreline of sense meets the wild ocean of imbecility. |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - November 11 2004 : 10:07:28 PM
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No you didn't. If you did devote a half-hour to writing your post, it was all spent thinking up your feeble and not very coherent insult. You would have been better off just sticking to that instead of trying to spice it with such a lie as your phantom "detailed response". It does nothing except show that when backed into a corner, your first and natural instinct is to lie.
R. Larsen
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Anonymous Poster4124
Forum Guest
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Posted - November 14 2004 : 6:34:44 PM
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There are several different theories regarding Crockett's death. Travis' slave, Joe, gives the description of many dead lying around Crockett's body in the "West".
Susanna Dickinson also said that she saw him lying dead in approximately the same place. He had many bayonet wounds and was riddled with bullets, with his peculiar hat lying next to him.
De La Pena journal, purchased by the University of Texas says that he was amoung those captured. The De La Pena account has many inaccuracies and has been hotly debated. For example, De La Pena's account of Travis' death. How could he have seen and Known Travis? The raid began before day light, and his slave Joe gave the first hand account. How could De La Pena know or see Travis in the dark?
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David Crockett's Death 
