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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
 Posted - October 23 2003 : 11:59:05 AM
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| ....although Curly claimed Boyeur, who was dressed in bucks, waved to the troops at that place, at that time in his presence. White or tan at that distance not distinguishable and nobody had time for a prolonged squint. Further, what difference does it make? And what would a waved hat signify? |
Dark Cloud
copyright RL MacLeod
darkcloud@darkendeavors.com
www.darkendeavors.com
www.boulderlout.com |
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vet777a
Sargent
Status: offline |
Posted - October 23 2003 : 1:13:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Cloud
Further, what difference does it make? And what would a waved hat signify?
DC: Perhaps the waved hat was not a 'hip-hip-hurah' gesture at all. I wonder if it was not meant to be a 'wave-off' of the attack. As one would wave their arms back and forth to stop an action. This done because the actual village size was now seen. Reno did not stop at that point. Then came the dash to find the nearest crossing to give support, or draw away the Indians which would of been MTF. Just a thought. |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - October 23 2003 : 3:08:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by vet777a
[quote]DC: Perhaps the waved hat was not a 'hip-hip-hurah' gesture at all. I wonder if it was not meant to be a 'wave-off' of the attack. As one would wave their arms back and forth to stop an action. This done because the actual village size was now seen. Reno did not stop at that point. Then came the dash to find the nearest crossing to give support, or draw away the Indians which would of been MTF. Just a thought.
I consider that very unlikely; what subordinate (I'm speaking of Reno and the men with him) would be so dumb --- not to mention reckless --- as to call off an attack solely because they saw, from a far distance, two guys on horseback who may or may not have been waving at them? Try explaining THAT one at your court-martial.
R. Larsen
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
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Dark Cloud
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
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vet777a
Sargent
Status: offline |
Posted - October 23 2003 : 5:06:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Cloud
But.....Curly says it's Boyeur.
Well, I have read accounts that is was Cooke, Custer, Boyer, etc. Perhaps Bouyer was waving good-bye to Curly as he said he was going to be with Custer. Then Curly was mis-interpreted as what I feel happened to a lot that Curly had said. |
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vet777a
Sargent
Status: offline |
Posted - October 23 2003 : 5:40:54 PM
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[/quote]
I consider that very unlikely; what subordinate (I'm speaking of Reno and the men with him) would be so dumb --- not to mention reckless --- as to call off an attack solely because they saw, from a far distance, two guys on horseback who may or may not have been waving at them? Try explaining THAT one at your court-martial.
R. Larsen
[/quote]
I understand your point. But, I do not consider it unlikely as a last ditch effort. Of course Reno would not of stopped under that scenario. My point is that the village size was actually seen by Custer. This is when he decided to find the closet crossing. When he did, he dispatched Martin (Martini) with the note to Benteen..."Big village..bring packs.." He knew it was too late to stop Reno. But, as I said, It could of been a final effort to do so. |
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El Crab
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - October 24 2003 : 06:08:02 AM
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| If Custer was trying to wave off the attack, I think his battalion would not have moved so far north afterwards. They would have retreated to try and go back and aid Reno. Or, at worst, stayed in the MTC complex. |
I came. I saw. I took 300 pictures. |
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Anonymous Poster8169
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - October 24 2003 : 09:38:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dark Cloud
How come you get to be Anonymous again? I HATE signing in and the music lasts, I'm quite sure, .0098 seconds longer when I sign in. An intolerable interlude.
Mumble.
As a joke --- and to thumb my nose at the "system". I still have to sign in. Pretty damned pointless, isn't it?
R. Larsen
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Wrangler
Lieutenant
Status: offline |
Posted - January 09 2004 : 01:21:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Halmyers
The subject of seeing Custer on the buff's from Reno's position has always been of interest. First of all you are looking upwards for three-quarters of a mile. Secondly you are in the heat of battle, and it lasted 35 minutes.
A question came to me the other night while reading about halts on the 25th. Is it possible that the guys on the ridge were Cooke, Keogh, and Pvt. A. McIlarghey and/or Pvt. J. Mitchell? Both were sent by Major Reno as messengers at/about the time his battalion was in the vicinity of Ford A watering horses or at the beginning of the movement down the valley to the village. Cooke and Keogh had followed Reno’s battalion to this point. Perhaps somewhere on the trail en route to Custer, one or both of these messengers linked up with Cooke and Keogh. Thoughts? |
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t-mac
Recruit
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - October 06 2011 : 08:00:43 AM
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i've read that the custer sighting was while the men were still on the skirmish line.is this not true? also,would they have not sounded recall if custer had of wanted reno to abandon the attack?wasn't it at this point that kanipe was dispatched to find benteen and the pack train?also,martin was sent back with the note just before custer crossed medicine tail coulee.
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - October 08 2011 : 4:07:42 PM
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Hi T-mac, yes there were one or two sightings shortly prior to Reno's entry into the timber. I do not believe there were any sightings after;of course I could be wrong.
Custer could have sounded "recall" if he wanted Reno to abandon the timber. The question that such an act would produce is why should he?. The timber was defensible as any other location in the area;more so! The fact that no "recall" was sounded could have been the result of two factors: Custer did not wish to do so or he was under the impression that Reno had continued to carry out his orders.
Custer would not have known of Reno's position,definitively, until he was notified by Mitch (scout) that Reno had abandoned the field which would have nullified any need for such a command of "recall.".
kanipe was dispatched prior to Custer's command entering the coulée that led to Medicine Trail Coulée and Martini was dispatched shortly after. |
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AZ Ranger
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - October 10 2011 : 10:41:16 AM
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Custer never told Reno to hold the timber and must have trusted Reno's judgment. If we follow Joe's theory than Custer could have a bugler blow charge if he wanted Reno to charge the village.
Seems that Reno's retrograde still accomplishes two things; the Indians remaining to fight and that they are away from the village.
Its the Indians observation that Custer was moving toward the village that caused them to react. There is nothing to indicate they would not have done that from the timber location they surrounded. Did they have the discipline to stay surrounding the timber while Custer rode in and killed their families, destroyed their property, and ran their horses off?
AZ Ranger |
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
SEMPER FI |
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joe wiggs
Brigadier General
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - October 20 2011 : 12:11:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AZ Ranger
Custer never told Reno to hold the timber and must have trusted Reno's judgment. If we follow Joe's theory than Custer could have a bugler blow charge if he wanted Reno to charge the village.
Actually, and I'm sure you will agree we don't know what all Custer told Reno;do we? I have never posted, to my knowledge,the theory you credit me with. Could you find it and post it so as to jog my memory?
Seems that Reno's retrograde still accomplishes two things; the Indians remaining to fight and that they are away from the village.
quote:
Again I'm a bit confused, when did Reno move backward (retrograde)? His initial charged/moved/cantered toward, galloped was toward the village. He then charged/moved/cantered,galloped toward etc. away from the village. The only other movement in the middle of all this was his leaving the skirmish line (abandoning the troopers to make their own decisions) and waiting in the "park" area until he decided to "charge" south. He arrived upon Reno Hill due to the flanking movement of the warriors which forced him to a crossing;he did not select one!
Its the Indians observation that Custer was moving toward the village that caused them to react. There is nothing to indicate they would not have done that from the timber location they surrounded. Did they have the discipline to stay surrounding the timber while Custer rode in and killed their families, destroyed their property, and ran their horses off?
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The Indians did not know Custer was moving toward the village as he had not been sighted until after Reno's aborted "charge" or whatever it was. Your second statement defies logic when one realizes that it was never necessary for them to "surround" the village and wait for Custer to attack. Thanks to the stalwart leadership of Reno, they were able to leave the timber unmolested,surround Custer and destroy his command, while a greater number of soldiers (more than Custer's entire command)were slowly slaughtered while Reno refused to move until allthe packs arrived;not just the ammunition packs but the beans, shirts, canned fruit,Calhoun's cake his wife sent,socks, beef jerky, hard tack,underwear, horse shoes,a second change of underwear and other essentials needed to fight the Sioux.
AZ Ranger
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Edited by - joe wiggs on October 20 2011 12:15:11 PM |
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