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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
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 Posted - September 05 2005 : 9:09:05 PM
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Poll Question:
Did Travis actually draw a line in the dirt, with his saber, to distinguish between those would stay at the Alamo and those who would not?
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - September 05 2005 : 9:21:27 PM
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Whenever I read or hear of the various exploits of this courageous battle two, poignant, images stand out in my mind's eye;Davy swinging Ole Betsey from the ramparts and Col. Travis drawing his line upon the dirt floor of the Alamo court yard.I have reason to believe, in my admittedly limited research, that Disney's portrayal of "Davy" may have been slightly exaggerated. The episode regarding Travis I simply don't know one way or the other. It certainly seems to smacks of legend.
I have not, as yet, voted one way or the other. I would very much like to listen to the input of the forum before I do so. Is there any substantial evidence out there to support either supposition? If so, I would dearly like to hear of it. |
Edited by - joseph wiggs on September 05 2005 9:22:47 PM |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - September 11 2005 : 9:14:58 PM
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I have no evidence that Travis did not draw the line into the dirt of the Alamo compound. In my limited research (I am continuing)the consensus appears to be that he did so. The personality of this individual would certainly accommodate such a posture. He was larger than life, flamboyant, and a little theatrical I think. This was exemplified in his writings and mail-ordered uniform.
I do not make these statements in a sense of condemnation. I believe him to be a very special person. It is my earnest wish that he did, in fact, draw the line. What a special act by a special man. |
Edited by - joseph wiggs on September 11 2005 9:16:45 PM |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - September 19 2005 : 10:05:53 PM
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| I voted yes, will the other voters give comment as to why they voted as they did? It would be wonderful to hear your thoughts about the matter. Remember, this is not an issue of who's right or wrong, it's about heartfelt feelings. No one can know for a certainty. |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - September 29 2005 : 10:08:03 PM
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| Hello! Is anyone there! |
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frankboddn
Major
USA
Status: offline |
Posted - October 05 2005 : 11:09:04 AM
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I voted yes, he did draw the line, maybe more as an emotional vote than being able to support the fact he did. I have a couple of friends I email with regularly on this and the Indian Wars, and they feel it did not happen, mainly because they think it is a matter of theatrics and because there is no proof he did it and it is just an urban legend. They have no proof he did it, nor that he didn't, but believe he didn't.
As a native Texan who grew up believing that he did do it, I have seen no proof he didn't do it, and I choose to believe he did do it. As you mentioned, if you read his pleas for help, he had a flair for the dramatics and seems like something he would have done. Beats a show of hands of who would stay and who wouldn't.
I think my friends disbelieve it because no survivors mentioned that it happened until much later. I say "so what?"
I also believed that Davy Crockett went down fighting, but after reading more, I do now believe that he fought until he could fight no more, was captured along with five or six others, and was then murdered by the scum-sucking Santa Ana. I can accept that because of eye witness accounts, particularly by Castrillon, I think his name was, and I don't think it makes him or any of the defenders any less a hero. That's my take on that stuff.
quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
Did Travis actually draw a line in the dirt, with his saber, to distinguish between those would stay at the Alamo and those who would not?
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - October 07 2005 : 10:41:41 PM
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Frank, thanks for responding.
The following is based upon statements by Louis (Moses) Rose (William P. Zuber. As you can see, the inability to ascertain his true name will hamper our ability to confirm his statement, however:
"On the evening of March 3, the Mexican bombardment suddenly fell silent and Travis called the defenders together, making a long speech that the Zuber account gives word for word. Travis announces that escape is impossible and surrender will lead to execution, so they may as well as fight to the death and sell their lives as steeply as possible.
My choice is to stay in this fort and to die for my country, fighting as long as breath shall remain in my body. This I will do even if you leave me alone. Do as you think best--but no man can die with me without affording me comfort at the moment of my death.
Travis then draws a line in the dirt with his sword, and asks that everyone willing to follow him to the death step across the line. Everyone but Rose did.
You know, as strange as this may sound, Rose must have harbored some courage to make the decision that he did. To stand alone, against the majority, is always extremely difficult. Perhaps this is why I can accept his statement. Thanks again for responding. |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - October 21 2005 : 10:08:50 PM
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| Could those individuals who voted "no" offer their rationale for doing so. Also, the information of those who voted "yes" would be greatly appreciated also. |
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greenman
Recruit
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Posted - February 03 2007 : 5:09:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
Could those individuals who voted "no" offer their rationale for doing so. Also, the information of those who voted "yes" would be greatly appreciated also.
It just seems too theatrical to me. I grew up right in the heart of where the Texas Revolution happened. I am 24k born and raised Texian and 62 years old. We were taught in school when I was growing up such tales about the fight for independence that today just seem like nonsense. When you delve into the true history of the era you find some rather unpleasant truths about the period and who held the moral high ground. Both before and after the war their was some pretty disgusting things that happened to people. Research what happended to the Don Martin de Leon family in Victoria, County. That is just the tip of the iceberg. |
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joseph wiggs
Brigadier General
Status: offline |
Posted - February 03 2007 : 8:13:58 PM
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Greenman,I can not believe this. I just purchased a book yesterday called "Eyewitness to the Alamo" by Bill Groneman. Chapter three referred to a an alleged report by Louise (Moses) Rose (alleged survivor of the battle)submitted by William P. Zuber. The story regarding Travis's sword in the dirt was very evolved and detailed.
I wondered how Rose could retain such detail. Also, the language was almost scholarly. I read further. In 1877, following much skepticism, Zuber admitted that he had made up Travis's elaborate speech but, insisted that the rest was true. Needless to say, if one portion is created then other portions may have been too.
You Sir, are correct when you stated, "It seems too theatrical to me." It is. Hindsight being twenty-twenty I admit I got caught up in an emotional scenario. Thank you so much for your response, the timing is absolutely unbelievable! I am not familiar with the don martin De Leon family. Could you tell us about it?
P.S. I wish I could vote again. To all of you who voted in the negative let me say that you are far more astute/knowledgeable than I. |
Edited by - joseph wiggs on February 03 2007 8:17:50 PM |
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Demarcation line
