| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Brent |
Posted - July 20 2004 : 06:57:00 AM
Remember that children's song--The Bear went over the Mountain?? To see what he could see. And all that he could see was--well--the other side of the mountain!
For some reason, this reminds me of Benteen's scout.
So I'm curious and will draw on the collective knowledge of the forum. When Custer sent Benteen (and his companies) on the Valley scout, did he have ANY reliable information to suggest that there were Indians in that area? Things like ponies being spotted, dust clouds, smoke from campfires, a "trail" being spotted--that sort of thing. I understand the thinking that there certainly "might be" Indians there, but anything at all to suggest there really were??
Or, were he and his 3 companies "just looking"?? To see what he could see, at a time whan the attack on the "Big Village" was getting underway. |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Dark Cloud |
Posted - August 25 2004 : 4:57:32 PM
Yeah, better run it past those children again, Wiggs. They can be no worse and are likely far more spontaneous. They wouldn't need days to compose all-purpose would-be flames without spelling errors and with correct subject-verb agreement.
You're better off just calling people names, Wiggs; when you try to appear clever, it's cringe worthy. |
| joseph wiggs |
Posted - August 25 2004 : 4:35:34 PM
Dear Dim Clown, your last subtle(?)and erroneous tirade is so indicative of a delusional lummox who, foolishly, believes that his opinions are the Alpha and Omega of life. Your pompous diatribes would be better served in a format where sanctimonious clowns, such as yourself, engage in supercilious comments of little value. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining. Actually, I get a little drowsy when I don't have your loud, but empty remarks to arouse my spirit. Thank you! However, in keeping with my sincere belief that the forum is better served when we stick to issues, I post the following: Custer died at the Battle of the Little Big Horn. |
| Dark Cloud |
Posted - August 25 2004 : 3:27:30 PM
As the pointless comma after malign proves, nobody maligns you Wiggs. Your featured belligerent incompetence does that. All the assurances in the world can't overcome what's up here on the forum under your name. All the sentences you wrote that mean the opposite of what you thought, all the missed references, and then thinking you can deny something you wrote that is even now still posted.....
Even with people writing on your behalf, they can't overcome that. Besides, any period of chronic coherence and competence with the language would only mean you aren't writing it. |
| joseph wiggs |
Posted - August 25 2004 : 1:38:12 PM
"Nobody Malign's you, Wiggs."
It has always been my sole intention to exchange information regarding the BLBH with others who share a compassionate interest in this saga. It was never my purpose to sling personal, demeaning, drivel at those who opined their thoughts. Sadly, such juvenile, crass, and wasteful comments are not beyond the scope of some. Pushed by the continuous, unsolicited, disgusting remarks of a few, I retaliated with a barage of un-niceties of my own. Having made this statement, I wish to re-affirm my desire to exchange credible information with others. As for those who wish to continue to "malign, Wiggs", I can assure you that I am more than equal to the challenge. |
| Dark Cloud |
Posted - August 17 2004 : 11:14:40 AM
I myself don't see how he could misjudge the distance. Even if he was unskilled, which he was not, the numerous scouts including Varnum would have corrected him.
There is something seriously odd, though, about the several repetitive couriers Custer sent to Benteen during this foray. With fifty scouts of some sort, you'd think he could put them to better use and keep the regiment together. He'd have the news about the extent of the village faster.
I spent a lot of time years past thinking that Benteen had fibbed, and that there was something else going on that was bolluxed. But Benteen's story about these orders and all were supported by those who delivered them and Gibson and others. And I was forced to conclude, as I guess others have, that Custer didn't have a tight grip on what he was doing, and that these logically unnecessary couriers were symptomatic of a disorganized and off the cuff commander.
It gives evidence to those who have said that Custer, while brave in battle, didn't give people a feeling of confidence in command. Imagine being an experienced leader like Benteen getting these stupid messages. Like a child in the backseat saying "are we there yet?" What does that suggest about your superior? That he can't formulate a directive because he hasn't decided on one and if there is a mistake, you will be blamed.
Benteen mentioned in his letters that Custer at one point gave a series of excellent orders for the organization of the regiment. He says it in a manner that indicates both approval and some surprise.
Like I say, the unstable ground makes you go rigid and into self-protect mode. I think Custer's officers in the West always had this issue. And if that newspaper piece he wrote about Reno's scout is indicative, he could be a manipulative sob for his own advancement at their expense, just like at the Wa****a. |
| Smcf |
Posted - August 17 2004 : 07:15:14 AM
I think the point concerning the Terry "orders" may have some merit in this context. The only serious disagreement Custer had with Terry during the march concerned the Reno scout of 10th-20th July, I'm given to understand. We can assume the plan agreed on by Terry, Gibbon and Custer had the full support of all, in the absence of evidence to the contrary. The carte blanche aspects of the orders to Custer seem to me to result from Terry's own deference to a man he desparately wanted on this mission. However, Terry's own considerations were apparently accepted by Custer too.
So, the 7th head straight for the trail Reno discovered a week or so earlier. On the morning of the 25th, Custer knows in which direction the village is, but has only a vague notion of the distance. The theory is he then puts the Terry/Gibbon/Custer plan into action on his own, with Benteen taking Custer's role in arcing south and west. The grand plan in miniature, if you will. It might be stretching the point, but it would also seem that Custer did not discuss Terry's considerations with his officers. From his report, Reno knew only that Benteen was taking a column to his left, to "sweep all before him". That's what the whole command was supposed to be doing from the Rosebud valley onwards.
Further speculation here, but could Custer have simply misjudged the distance he and Reno travelled after not coming across any village a few miles after Benteen split off? |
| Dark Cloud |
Posted - August 16 2004 : 5:57:47 PM
Nobody maligns you, Wiggs. It's your inability to understand what you've read, or purport to have written, that has produced whatever image people have of you. The numerous sentences of yours saying the exact opposite of what you think they mean would alone condemn you. |
| Anonymous Poster8169 |
Posted - August 16 2004 : 5:56:41 PM
Wiggs, lay off the booze and quit arm-twisting the neighborhood children to write for you. The avalanche of misplaced commas is obscene, the attempt at witty invective ponderous and stupid.
R. Larsen |
| joseph wiggs |
Posted - August 16 2004 : 5:25:51 PM
Hi Billy, sorry that I'm so late in getting back to you, but here I am. The fact that you, obviously, assumed that I do not possess a Thesaurus prompted you to graciously look up the word 'malapropism' for me. I thank you so much for your effort. However, your assumption about that, as well as, my future 'lobotomy'
is incorrect and, indicative of a mentally deficient person incapable of rational conduct(idiot.)
May I suggest a helpful, little hint? If you have nothing of value to say about TLBH, don't waste your time (which is,apparently, of no value), energy, or intellect(smile) attempting to malign me.
Mis'state' ment - When little Billy grows up he will ne a fine adult. (False, Billy is already grown and yet, he continues to indulge in puerile behavior. |
| bhist |
Posted - August 12 2004 : 2:48:24 PM
Good point D.C. This action by Custer is one I’ve always questioned. It is another example that supports my theory that Custer was motivated that day strictly by CYA (Cover Your Ass) and not the regiment. |
| Dark Cloud |
Posted - August 09 2004 : 10:05:26 AM
Here's a fun exercise. Since Benteen never halted awaiting orders on his scout, how far ahead of time was Custer sending off these couriers, and based on what? Plot it out. Gray doesn't, as I recall. Isn't this VERY strange? Why not just tell Benteen to continue until he can see the southern LBH valley and report and return to Custer? There is a huge dissonance between Benteen's alleged orders before he left the regiment and these additional couriers. Custer couldn't formulate orders that didn't need updates every twenty minutes? If he was seeing the need to update Benteen's orders this often from his trail, why not send some scouts ahead between the two units to save time?
Really, the command of the 7th gave bad orders, subject to interpretation, and did so in confusing and incoherent ways that do not, even today, suggest a well thought out or even vaguely coherent plan. |
| wILD I |
Posted - August 09 2004 : 09:12:11 AM
Just checking guys.Benteen never scouted the third valley although order to do so by a message carried by the sergeant major.True ? |
| BJMarkland |
Posted - August 07 2004 : 6:03:32 PM
Wiggs, just in case you did not bother to look it up, here is the definition of malapropism:
mal´a`prop`ism
Noun 1. malapropism - the unintentional misuse of a word by confusion with one that sounds similar
malaprop
misstatement - a statement that contains a mistake
And to further clarify:
Mis`state´ment
Noun 1. misstatement - a statement that contains a mistake
statement - a message that is stated or declared; a communication (oral or written) setting forth particulars or facts etc; "according to his statement he was in London on that day"
mistake, error - part of a statement that is not correct; "the book was full of errors"
malaprop, malapropism - the unintentional misuse of a word by confusion with one that sounds similar
slip of the tongue - an accidental and usually trivial mistake in speaking
With the best of wishes for your successful lobotomy,
Billy |
| Anonymous Poster8169 |
Posted - August 07 2004 : 12:41:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
You must be really upset to utilize such a big word as
"Malapropisms".
"Malapropism" is hardly a big word, and we each probably encounter what it describes several times each week. Sorry if the word intimidates you. Life must, if "malapropism" does.
quote:
Although your chronic usage of "Vapid" is becoming quite boorish.
It is vapid behavior which is boorish, not the identification of such, but if it spares your feelings I'll try to use a synonym next time. It'll hand you another word to mutilate.
quote:
I show your persnickety remarks to the neighborhood children as often as possible. We all get such a wonderful laugh.
Why are you hanging around neighborhood children? What else are you showing them that you find on the computer?
quote:
They all remark how strange your language is, they feel that "real" people do not talk/wtite that way. I assure them that you are not really "people."
You're right, I am hardly plural. Neither are those "kids" whose existence you just made up. What did the kiddies say when you demonstrated to them an offensive circle?
quote:
Your insidious remarks regarding the wounding, multilation, and death of Elliot's command did nothing to counter my argument of how the men arrived at their final resting place.
You didn't have an argument, Joseph. Just bloviating to try to squirm around the idiocy of your "offensive circle". There's no controversy about how Elliott got there.
quote:
Your statements were merely another, unsolicited, splattering of the repulsive language that is a peculiar characteristic of your specific species (what ever that may be.)
Incoherence.
R. Larsen
|
| Dark Cloud |
Posted - August 06 2004 : 10:44:02 PM
Try hanging around adults. Kids do scenes from The Rivals in school and are taught English lit and don't rarely run across Sheridan, so many if not most people know about malapropisms, and what it means. Odd you didn't, because it isn't a rare term. |
| joseph wiggs |
Posted - August 06 2004 : 9:48:09 PM
You must be really upset to utilize such a big word as
"Malapropisms". Although your chronic usage of "Vapid" is becoming quite boorish. I show your persnickety remarks to the neighborhood children as often as possible. We all get such a wonderful laugh. They all remark how strange your language is, they feel that "real" people do not talk/wtite that way. I assure them that you are not really "people."
Your insidious remarks regarding the wounding, multilation, and death of Elliot's command did nothing to counter my argument of how the men arrived at their final resting place. Your statements were merely another, unsolicited, splattering of the repulsive language that is a peculiar characteristic of your specific species (what ever that may be.) |
| Anonymous Poster8169 |
Posted - July 30 2004 : 11:17:05 PM
It's unlikely I can ever establish a type as vapid as that shown in your own postings, which with their wretched grammar, chronic misspellings, epileptic logic, and wild malapropisms, are the verbal equivalent of a hernia. The person I actually said was silly was you, not Elliott. Elliott was merely reckless; unlike some, he paid for it.
R. Larsen
|
| joseph wiggs |
Posted - July 30 2004 : 10:04:16 PM
Men often do foolish things. I have, and I would imagine that perhaps, you have too. Hindsight being 20/20, it is relatively easy for you to proclain Elliot's choice as silly. In his zest to mow down escaping Indians, he found himself on grounds not suitable for his purposes. Ergo, he and his men were liquidated. Your silly responses are completely void of any substance but, they are so typical of you. |
| Anonymous Poster8169 |
Posted - July 29 2004 : 11:26:59 AM
quote:
The location was poor for any type of engagement, however, location was not of Elliot's choosing.
That's silly. It was his choice to chase Indians that far from support. He knew the potential risks. Skirmishes of the Elliott type are NOT common, because most officers weren't foolish enough to gamble like that.
Wiggs, of course, doesn't acknowledge the nonsense he was pumping out, though it would have been entertaining to see it in action.
(Wa****a, 1868.)
Elliott--- "Holy moly, look at all those Indians! Men, here's my plan. We're going to form an OFFENSIVE CIRCLE. This geometric configuration will enable us to meet and confront the enemy and enforce in him panic, terror, and loss of control. No man can withstand the circle. Alright men, let go your horses, lay down, and commence firing blindly from the high grass. I smell a promotion in the wind."
Nameless Soldier--- "Anyone else think we should cap a round in Maj. Elliott? I'm thinking right in the left cheek...."
2nd Soldier--- "I got dibs on the genital mutilation"
R. Larsen
|
| joseph wiggs |
Posted - July 28 2004 : 8:44:21 PM
Whenever troops respond to a miltary threat in a precise movement, regardless of what type, it is "Primi Facie" evidence that orders were given and followed. The location was poor for any type of engagement, however, location was not of Elliot's choosing. The complete absence of formation, officers away from their commands, and "bunkies" not together bespeaks of panic, terror, and loss of control.
When totally surrounded by an aggresive enemy, the selection of military tactics to confront the foe are limited. Unlike the British troops who often used large groups of manpower to establish the "British Square" to stave-off the enenmy, Poor Elliot only had a comparatively few men to do the same. Had the warriors been foolish enough to committ themselves to an aggressive charge, undoubtedly, their losses would have been severe. Engaging in sniping firing from the nearby bluffs doomed the soldiers to complete defeat.
And you are so right, one over eager warrior paid the penalty for his rashness. Thanks, I had forgotten about that. |
| Anonymous Poster8169 |
Posted - July 26 2004 : 9:43:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by joseph wiggs
Elliot's men were discovered in a geometric configuration that enabled the men to meet and confront the enemy regardless of his approach; a circle. Imagine a wheel with the spokes representing individual soldiers. Utilization of such an offensive tactic enabled the command to face and confront an enemy who has the capability to attack in all directions. Unfortunately, Indian sharpshooters from nearby ridges dispatched the men as they lay. When all the soldiers were either killed or wounded from sniper fire, the warriors came in for the final "coup." At the end, I would venture to guess that the poor souls wished that they were anywhere other than the spot of ground that received their blood; even the Bermuda Triangle with Brent.
It wasn't an "offensive" tactic. It was defensive, and its poor location --- low ground, high grass, poor line of fire --- attests to panic and desperation more than anything. How exactly did it "enable" them to confront the enemy? 18 dead soldiers, and it seems the only Indian they took down was a fellow who tried to count coup too early.
R. Larsen
|
| joseph wiggs |
Posted - July 26 2004 : 9:15:29 PM
Elliot's men were discovered in a geometric configuration that enabled the men to meet and confront the enemy regardless of his approach; a circle. Imagine a wheel with the spokes representing individual soldiers. Utilization of such an offensive tactic enabled the command to face and confront an enemy who has the capability to attack in all directions. Unfortunately, Indian sharpshooters from nearby ridges dispatched the men as they lay. When all the soldiers were either killed or wounded from sniper fire, the warriors came in for the final "coup." At the end, I would venture to guess that the poor souls wished that they were anywhere other than the spot of ground that received their blood; even the Bermuda Triangle with Brent. |
| Brent |
Posted - July 25 2004 : 06:51:14 AM
Or a Bermuda triangle??? |
| Anonymous Poster8169 |
Posted - July 24 2004 : 7:54:03 PM
quote:
Wiggs, what exactly is an "offensive circle"?
Is it related to a purulent square?
R. Larsen |
| Anonymous Poster8169 |
Posted - July 24 2004 : 7:49:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by El Crab
Well, I know I've read something like that before. I don't own but one novel on the battle, and I don't believe its in there. Surely, Boston Custer was excited, so maybe that was it. But until I figure out where I read that, its a moot point.
Alas, I wasn't talking about novels. This kind of stuff has a habit of creeping into many histories. Dark Cloud mentioned the Titanic, but think also of the Alamo, the Civil War, those sickly World War II "pop histories". Dan Kurzman wrote an entertaining book about the USS Indianapolis a few years ago, which is basically fiction modeled on a few facts pumped out of the McVey court-martial and interviews. And there have only been two books published on the Dade Massacre, both by the same man (Frank Laumer), but they are each as fictional as Kurzman's. Too many people --- and Wiggs is clearly one of them --- can't resist the urge to plaster the raw details with their own fertile (as in fertilizer) imaginings.
R. Larsen
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