| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| BJMarkland |
Posted - January 27 2004 : 07:31:26 AM
I thought it would be more convenient for everyone if there was a thread devoted to research and locations to research aspects of the battle, rather than have them pop up all over in distant threads. (Boy, I am proud of that run-on sentence!  )
First entry will be a web site which acts as a central clearing house. The actual documents are put up other entities and this location just links to them. Still, well organized, and it is easier to remember one bookmark than 5-10.
http://www.soldierquest.org/index.htm
The on-line books section is on the top menu bar third from the right. Featured, which I use a lot (I downloaded the files to my PC even,) is Heitman's Historical Register and Dictionary of the United States Army. They also have the links to the Official Records of the War of the Rebellion for the Union and Confederacy for both the Army & Navy.
Enjoy,
Billy |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Smcf |
Posted - February 20 2007 : 08:25:26 AM
You're very welcome. As Dark Cloud says. they're reproduced in "Where Custer Fell" (or "Where Custard Fell" as the bookshop clerk kept shouting all over the shop when I arrived to collect my copy). |
| joseph wiggs |
Posted - February 06 2007 : 6:47:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Smcf
Some nice photos from above:
1886 reunion at Reno Hill:
http://sirismm.si.edu/naa/4605/01605402.jpg
1886 reunion at Monument with some of the 'ol boys:
http://sirismm.si.edu/naa/4605/01605403.jpg
This next one, undated shows skirmish line firing east from battle ridge, around Calhoun spot?. Written on photo at top "Col Marcus R Reno" and captioned: "At the spot where Custer's command perished":
http://sirismm.si.edu/naa/4605/01605404.jpg
This the very first time I've had a chance to view these photo's. They are absolutely great. Thank you very much for sharing them. |
| Smcf |
Posted - February 22 2006 : 06:02:06 AM
quote:
The photo itself was taken in what is now the cemetery
Thanks for that - it certainly looked to me to have been taken from the high ridge. Just goes to show what you can read into things. The perspective from there to Weir Point in the background seems to elevate the position and the man standing with hand on thigh seems to be close to a cairn or marker of some sort, which I mistook to represent Calhoun's position. |
| Dark Cloud |
Posted - February 21 2006 : 12:16:45 PM
Regarding the skirmish line photo, it's also from the reunion and by Barry, supposedly based on a remark overheard from Gall via translator. The soldiers face the rising sun, but in his commentary Barry said he's showing where Custer's first lines were as he backed up to where he fell. The photo itself was taken in what is now the cemetery. This, according to matching photos in Where Custer Fell, page 123-5.
How does the Cornell copy of Godfrey differ from what is in Graham? |
| lorendead |
Posted - February 21 2006 : 11:32:13 AM
Billy:By some chance would you have available a site to view Godfrey's original field notes? Not the article type but original field notes, I would like to see the original notes on the death of the soldier who refused to go on the Benteen charge. Thank you
quote:
Originally posted by BJMarkland
Don't sweat it, the MOA at Michigan is somewhat clumsy to navigate around.
I went over to the MOA site at Cornell and hit several jackpots. One is the Century Magazine article by then Capt. Godfrey, entitled, "Custer's Last Fight". Cornell does it smarter than the Michigan guys and gives you a URL you can use to bookmark the article, thus, we have:
http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ABP2287-0043-105
Click on the article's title and it will take you to the first page. If you want to print it out or save it, I would recommend using the VIEW AS option at the top left and changing it to a PDF file. You have to do this one page at a time, unfortunately, but Godfrey's article is only 28 pages and General Fry's comments at the end an additional two.
Billy
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| Smcf |
Posted - February 21 2006 : 10:33:37 AM
Some nice photos from above:
1886 reunion at Reno Hill:
http://sirismm.si.edu/naa/4605/01605402.jpg
1886 reunion at Monument with some of the 'ol boys:
http://sirismm.si.edu/naa/4605/01605403.jpg
This next one, undated shows skirmish line firing east from battle ridge, around Calhoun spot?. Written on photo at top "Col Marcus R Reno" and captioned: "At the spot where Custer's command perished":
http://sirismm.si.edu/naa/4605/01605404.jpg
|
| Smcf |
Posted - February 17 2006 : 09:43:03 AM
A scrapbook on the Wild West by illustrator James Earl Taylor
inc Battle of Wa****a clippings/photos etc.
http://www.nmnh.si.edu/naa/taylor/# |
| Dark Cloud |
Posted - September 21 2005 : 3:26:56 PM
Gee. A full pistol load and nine rounds for the carbine. Every month. Man, there's a hot shooting outfit, eh? No doubt, proof the Back of the Sioux War Machine was broken by Custer's Earps and Bumpos.
Of course, assuming this same war department also felt the need for each cavalryman should have an actual horse, we're left with the puzzling sight of the 7th's newish/more annoying troopers walking towards their supposed mounts as Custer headed for the LBH. These animals apparently didn't get the memo, and didn't show up. Or something. In any case, with that inspiring example of the 7th's attention to detail (and the Army's in general during those years), we can be sure each and every month meaningful, if brief, target practice was completed. The stories of soldiers selling their ammo, of officers in later life reflecting on the 'good old days' when no practice was done, must of course be false.
In any event, there are those mounds of dead Indians at $1 million (Robert Lincoln)each as proof.
If it appears on official stationary, we can be sure it happened. Would the Army mislead? I ask you. |
| BJMarkland |
Posted - September 20 2005 : 9:25:47 PM
OK, for those who were curious about target practice, amount of ammunition allowed, etc., go to www.lbha.org and under Message Boards/Battle Basics/Trapdoor Carbine & SAA Pistol, find the answer. It doesn't say how much that the 7th practiced but it does set the parameters to how much they could practice.
Billy |
| BJMarkland |
Posted - July 07 2005 : 2:54:44 PM
OK, finished, beyond error-correction/formatting fixes, the Secretary of War's Report on the battle of the Wa****a. I have changed the name to avoid the censor software but the easy way to get there is to go to my main history page, select 7th Cav. & GAC Information, then the report.
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~familyinformation/#custer |
| BJMarkland |
Posted - July 05 2005 : 10:12:13 AM
For any interested, I have posted the first 30 pages (of 46 pages) of the Secretary of War's report to the Senate about the battle on the Wa****a. The partial file is in .pdf and may be found at this URL:
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~familyinformation/Custer/wa a_sec_war_report.pdf
Dave kindly pointed out that the censoring software at this site hosed up the name. Cut and paste the URL into your address bar, then where the *stars* are, type in the remainder of the letters of the name of the river where Black Kettle was killed.
Hopefully I can the rest scanned, OCR'd and proofed this week. If you spot any errors-typos, spellings, etc. let me know by PM.
Billy |
| Dark Cloud |
Posted - April 24 2005 : 12:19:41 PM
Also, this.
http://www.ric.edu/rpotter/SJFranklin.html |
| BJMarkland |
Posted - April 24 2005 : 09:03:39 AM
I ran into this information regarding the Franklin which I remember some people were interested in at the Canada Archives.
http://www.collectionscanada.ca/2/21/h21-204-e.html
Hope it is of some help.
Billy |
| BJMarkland |
Posted - March 31 2005 : 4:11:32 PM
A mystery is now solved. Elementary, really.
http://www.geocities.com/~sherlockian/holmesian/dim_yop.html
Billy |
| movingrobewoman |
Posted - March 24 2005 : 7:41:44 PM
Billy (or anybody else)--
Is there a copy running about of any written orders from WT Sherman to Custer in regards to the Summer campaign of 1867--i.e., the course from the Big River camp to Ft. McPherson and/or any objectives--the summer campaign GAC so aptly left without leave in July of that year? I know orders came from Sherman, but am uncertain about the form or the wordage--if there were any ...
Hoka hey!
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| BJMarkland |
Posted - March 24 2005 : 12:22:16 AM
Totally irrelevant to LBH but interesting nonetheless are Jeff Cooper's Commentaries.
http://www.dvc.org.uk/~johnny/jeff/index.html
Billy |
| BJMarkland |
Posted - March 18 2005 : 2:46:33 PM
I am briefly back.
Beyond Vaughn, has anyone ever systematically performed analysis of the Rosebud battlefield? The reason I am asking is that since the area is, compared to LBH, pristine from contamination, the artifacts found there would likely be more conclusive regarding deficiencies in weapons/ammunition
Catch up with you all later, gotta get back to work. What a dirty four letter word!!! A certain pager is going to be thrown against the wall if it goes off one more time today. Twenty pages in one morning is too darned many!!!
I may have a chance to read up and respond either at work tonight or Sunday morning. If not, talk with you all next week.
Billy
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| Dark Cloud |
Posted - March 17 2005 : 1:13:40 PM
The burden of proof is on those who claim the problem was the equipment and not the men using it. If they had problems with the weapons at the Rosebud, they would have been required to report it. Further, there would have been all sorts of private mail about it. Funny that nobody except the 7th had these alleged problems en masse.
Nothing about it, and the Army kept the weapon for decades. Huh. You'd think the subject would have come up, especially in the controversy about the Rosebud between Crook and other officers. Bourke, however, like Bradley, thought highly of the Springfields. Isn't that strange? These officers who fought Indians on the frontier as much or more than Custer liked the weapons. Go figure. |
| dave |
Posted - March 17 2005 : 08:26:30 AM
Wild,
I was going to give you a long answer, but here's a shorter one instead.
Australian aboriginals were treated similarly to the American Indian. The main difference was that the aboriginals were less advanced and weren't as numerous. As a consequence, we didn't have any battles on the scale of the those of the Plains Wars or the earlier battles of the eastern woodlands.
Apart from a few small exceptions, the aboriginals were never able to form an organised resistance to the European settlers. Most of the violence which took place between colonist and aboriginal was waged by settlers or squatters (illegal settlers) protecting their flocks from the aboriginals. Military actions involving soldiers were generally a rare occurence (at least they were in Western Australia, which is the state I hail from).
The lowest point of aboriginal-white relations was the complete annihilation/removal of the Tasmanian Aboriginal population. The entire aboriginal population was exiled (excluding those who were murdered that is) to an island in the Bass Strait, where they became completely extinct by the 1870's.
In Western Australia, we had one battle, or more accurately skirmish. The battle of Pinjarra. Twenty five settlers and soldiers, including Governor Stirling attacked a band of approximately 70 - 100+ aboriginals, killing 20 - 30 individuals.
http://www.walkabout.com.au/locations/WAPinjarra.shtml
http://www.sydneyline.com/ARB%20reply%20April%2001.htm
http://www.militarybadges.info/brits/eras/05-the1830s.htm |
| wILD I |
Posted - March 17 2005 : 07:30:42 AM
Major Reno complained to the army chief of ordnance that six carbines had been rendered unserviceable during his part of the battle due to a faulty ejector mechanism.
Note that these weapons were rendered unserviceable what I 'm wondering is how many jammed but were cleared?Were those those 6 carbines just the worst cases? Were there in fact "24" incidences of carbines jamming?Similar figures at the LSH would have caused return fire to slacken resulting in loss of confidence in the defending troops and allowing the Indians to get in close. |
| Dark Cloud |
Posted - March 16 2005 : 9:33:54 PM
I've seen nothing about Crook's soldiers having excessive problems with their Springfields at the Rosebud. You? If you or anyone has information they did, share it. It's only the 7th, far as I can tell, that claimed it and then only after they lost. Huh. Go figure. |
| Dark Cloud |
Posted - March 16 2005 : 2:46:00 PM
What they don't often mention about the St. Claire disaster is that he had numerous camp followers with his army, both an incitement to the Miami and a hindrance to St. Claire. |
| Anonymous Poster8169 |
Posted - March 16 2005 : 2:30:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by wILD I
I always thought that the LBH was the greatest defeat inflicted on US forces by the Indians.This appears to be yet another myth about the LBH.
Well, it is the greatest in the sense of, "everybody killed." With St. Clair one could also mention the Creek attack on Fort Mims in 1813; I think about 400 people, mostly militamen, were killed in that.
R. Larsen |
| wILD I |
Posted - March 16 2005 : 11:37:19 AM
Interesting link Dave.Ya know the entire conflict offers so much more than the Custer episode.
I know nothing of the history of Oz regarding the aborogines.I don't imagine it was in any way similar to the Indian conflicts? |
| dave |
Posted - March 16 2005 : 08:46:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by wILD I
I always thought that the LBH was the greatest defeat inflicted on US forces by the Indians.This appears to be yet another myth about the LBH.
In 1791 a column of 1400 US troops out of fort Hamilton under the command of St Clair and supported by artillery was ambushed by the Shawnee Indians and defeated in a 3 hour battle suffering casualties amounting to 623 dead.In addition to the dead 271 ot St Clair's men were wounded.All artillery was lost along with all the columns supplies and 200 camp followers. A defeat dwarfing that of Custer's.
The Dade massacre during the Seminole wars was almost as bad as LBH, 105 soldiers dying from detachment of 108.
http://www.geocities.com/rodent70/html/Dade.html
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