| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| joseph wiggs |
Posted - October 23 2007 : 5:34:06 PM
What is the value of Indian testimony in discerning Custer's final hour? |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| joe wiggs |
Posted - December 27 2011 : 8:54:04 PM
Why don't you take a survey and see what people generally thought about your slogan before you explained it. You see AZ, the vast majority of slogans are self explanatory;hence the name "slogan."
Now I won't argue with you about me being "ignorant" as all of us (including you) have been guilty of a boner or two. Regardless, a belated merry Christmas to you and your family. |
| AZ Ranger |
Posted - December 24 2011 : 02:18:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by joe wiggs
quote:
Originally posted by AZ Ranger
No man will follow you merely because of the official relationship. If you want the trust of your men, and their devotion and belief in you, you must treat them as human beings [...] The foundation of human life is food. The first duty of an officer is to look after his horse because it is dumb, then to look after his men and see that they are comfortably housed and fed, and, not until he has done this, to look after his own wants.
I see, someone held you hostage and forced you to use this slogan huh? The beef remains with you because you could have chosen a thousand sayings like "god Bless America." No, you decided on a line that teaches us the caring of a horse exceeds the wants of a fellow human being.
I'll chose anything that I like. Again your ignorance shows since it does not mean that at all. It sets the order of duties to preform but has nothing to do with caring. We didn't hold hands and give hugs in the Marine Corps but we made sure our rifles were ready as a first duty. |
| AZ Ranger |
Posted - December 24 2011 : 01:51:51 AM
Is it that you don't understand the difference between ordered by an officer and following an respected officer? |
| AZ Ranger |
Posted - December 24 2011 : 01:45:28 AM
Here is another quote dealing with a point you were trying to make and I think wrong. I bolded the part the medal of honor winner states in difference to your posted opinion.
"By CSM Gary L. Littrell, US Army (ret.), MOH
I often think back to when I was a young NCO, a young buck sergeant in 1964
at the ripe age of 19 years old. I remember asking myself what would it take
for me to be a great NCO? We didn’t have NCO Academies. We didn’t have
noncommissioned officer guides. We had the experience of our senior NCOs
and we had the day to day task of asking ourselves whether we wanted to be
good sergeants and if so what would it take to make us good sergeants. And I thought the number one thing to becoming the best NCO I could be was to be respected. You see, respect is something that has to be earned. Respect is notissued to you with a set of orders and a set of stripes. Respect is something youearn by taking care of the soldiers that you train and supervise and prepare for
combat.
One of |
| AZ Ranger |
Posted - December 24 2011 : 01:30:55 AM
You do understand that the following is a quote of a cavalry officer:
"No man will follow you merely because of the official relationship. If you want the trust of your men, and their devotion and belief in you, you must treat them as human beings [...] The foundation of human life is food. The first duty of an officer is to look after his horse because it is dumb, then to look after his men and see that they are comfortably housed and fed, and, not until he has done this, to look after his own wants."
|
| AZ Ranger |
Posted - December 24 2011 : 01:24:55 AM
Again that is another quote from a cavalry officer. Funny that you can't understand it. Seems odd to me that you continue to lecture about being childish and yet you're always the one starting something. For instance the comments about an officers duty.
“ An officer's first duty is to his horses.”
|
| AZ Ranger |
Posted - December 24 2011 : 01:15:09 AM
If I recall correctly you dropped out.
|
| joe wiggs |
Posted - December 23 2011 : 11:07:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by AZ Ranger
No man will follow you merely because of the official relationship. If you want the trust of your men, and their devotion and belief in you, you must treat them as human beings [...] The foundation of human life is food. The first duty of an officer is to look after his horse because it is dumb, then to look after his men and see that they are comfortably housed and fed, and, not until he has done this, to look after his own wants.
Az, are you on drugs? Are you telling me that if a superior officer gave you an order you would only obey it if you were devoted to him? I would wager that tomorrow if a superior officer you had never met (id you were a current member of the armed forces) told you to drop and give twenty you would drop, immediately,and knock off twenty, I know I would! |
| joe wiggs |
Posted - December 23 2011 : 11:01:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by AZ Ranger
No man will follow you merely because of the official relationship. If you want the trust of your men, and their devotion and belief in you, you must treat them as human beings [...] The foundation of human life is food. The first duty of an officer is to look after his horse because it is dumb, then to look after his men and see that they are comfortably housed and fed, and, not until he has done this, to look after his own wants.
I see, someone held you hostage and forced you to use this slogan huh? The beef remains with you because you could have chosen a thousand sayings like "god Bless America." No, you decided on a line that teaches us the caring of a horse exceeds the wants of a fellow human being. |
| AZ Ranger |
Posted - December 23 2011 : 1:10:24 PM
I am sure that in the cavalry when they took breaks and went into camp they took care of the horses first. The same was true of a Marine and his rifle that it was taken care before eating or sleeping don't you think?
First duty implies nothing about what I think you are trying to get at. You can't be cavalry without a horse so you must maintain the horse and that occurs first before other duties. In the Marine Corps you can't be a Marine without a rifle so therefore it comes first.
AZ Ranger |
| AZ Ranger |
Posted - December 23 2011 : 1:02:53 PM
http://books.google.com/books?id=HoEDAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA541&ots=_Foxsxhx4B&dq=An%20officer's%20first%20duty%20is%20to%20his%20horses&pg=PA542#v=onepage&q=An%20officer's%20first%20duty%20is%20to%20his%20horses&f=false
Seems it was the same with artillery don't you think Joe |
| AZ Ranger |
Posted - December 23 2011 : 12:52:14 PM
No man will follow you merely because of the official relationship. If you want the trust of your men, and their devotion and belief in you, you must treat them as human beings [...] The foundation of human life is food. The first duty of an officer is to look after his horse because it is dumb, then to look after his men and see that they are comfortably housed and fed, and, not until he has done this, to look after his own wants.
|
| AZ Ranger |
Posted - December 23 2011 : 12:49:31 PM
That saying is from the cavalry not one I made up. So your beef on that would be with the US Cavalry and not me. On the other board I changed it to a mounted officer for police work on horseback. In that case a officer is an individual and does not not refer to rank per se. I think the canine officers have a similar feeling toward thier dog.
Just so you know we did not use horses in Viet Nam in the Marines that I recall but since you want to go into Marine Corps stuff refresh youself with the rifle creed.
This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than the enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will. My rifle and I know that what counts in war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, or the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit.
My rifle is human, even as I am human, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strengths, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other.
Before God I swear this creed. My rifle and I are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life.
So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy.
|
| joe wiggs |
Posted - December 23 2011 : 11:27:57 AM
An officer's first duty is to his men! An officer in Viet nam who adhered to your philosophy would have been fragged. by the way, you where in Viet-Nam, right? |
| joe wiggs |
Posted - December 23 2011 : 11:25:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by AZ Ranger
I have read many Indians accounts but no Indian testimony. Even at RCOI Indian accounts were introduced. The difference is that they were hearsay at RCOI and not testimony where they could have been charged with perjury as a person would be if making a knowingly false testimony.The error factors of translation, recollection errors, and retelling of accounts of nothing to do with the veracity of the person telling the account. It has everything to do with its accuracy. The Indians accounts are what they are. Just as Private Peter Thompson gave his account.
quote:
Just a refresher regarding your erroneous denial of Indians being capable of giving "testimony" which you have recently denied. In fact, after i patiently explained the gross error of your ways, you responded back that you were "glad i was coming around to your way of thinking."
Since the original sources are dead and the translators if they were used are dead then it is up to each individual to place the weight they feel appropriate to the accounts.
quote:
The writers of the Bible are dead. Many writers of the history of World War 11 are dead. The writers of many major compositions are dead and many people of many Nations confer an incredible belief in the works. Exactly what is your point?
So the bottom line is there any difference in Joe's meaning of an Indian statement, Indian account, and Indian testimony. No
quote:
I believe you just may be insane. It was you and that obnoxious buddy of yours who insisted there was a difference. It was I who proved (via Webster's dictionary) that you both were wrong. Lord AZ, do you not understand that people have to merely read these posts and know that you are a Liar?
I chose to hold a higher standard to someone who takes an oath to tell the truth. Apparently Joe does not therefore his use of testimony has no measure of accountability anymore than someone bragging about how good he was in any particular event.
quote:
What you and I choose to believe is subjective and therefore meaningless. I responded to your inane commitment that Indian information as to what happened at the battle was not "Testimony."
Since Joe sees no difference between testimony and account why did use testimony instead of account in his poll question. Since he has been in the discussion of testimony v. account then he can no longer claim ignorance. Does he feel his poll would have a different meaning if he substitute account or statement for testimony? Or does he really hold a different standard when he uses the word testimony?
quote:
See what I mean!
AZ Ranger
|
| AZ Ranger |
Posted - December 22 2011 : 09:24:37 AM
Merry Christmas Joe |
| AZ Ranger |
Posted - December 22 2011 : 09:21:05 AM
When you attack dead officers reputations with starting threads such as Why did Wallace lie you opened the door to be called a liar yourself. |
| joe wiggs |
Posted - December 21 2011 : 10:00:48 PM
I feel sorry for you. I know that you do not wish anything from me but, I truly feel sorry for you. Unable to match my ability to present knowledge to this forum, you respond in the only way left to you;with inane, superficial, and silly innuendo. a while back i asked you why 13 out of 16 witnesses heard gunfire when three (your buddies) Wallace,Reno, and Benteen didn't.
Of course you ignored that question because you don't know how to answer it. You would rather call be a "liar" than display your ignorance.Sadly, you have exposed your small mind to everyone who reads your responses. I hope you get better soon. |
| AZ Ranger |
Posted - December 19 2011 : 11:36:03 AM
Well Joe just review this board and the discussions you have had with others and you will find a common theme among some of the other posters. They think you are a liar. You can't hold anyone accountable for what you do not understand except yourself. I can understand your problem in the last post since most of it is quoting your posts. |
| joe wiggs |
Posted - December 18 2011 : 6:04:32 PM
Brother if I were you (Thank God I'm not) I would go light with word "ignorant"! I swear your last two posts are incomprehensible. I must have really touch a sore button to reduce your massive rhetoric to a mere ounce of unidentifiable gibberish!  |
| AZ Ranger |
Posted - December 18 2011 : 03:56:48 AM
Apparently you didn't read the last sentence.
"We don't have silver star or any star awards so you comment is impossible. We do have officer of the year award for total performance."
Or for that matter the sentence before it.
"Again you show your ignorance."
And almost finally
I address a police issue and you respond with a military example!
Is this below sentence an example or is it a question?
"If the military gave silver stars to everyone that survived a gun battle it would have no value would it?"
Here is your final ignorant statements:
Mmaybe one day, in another 60 odd years, you may get one.
Because your alleged department does not have something no other police force may?
Seems to me that if I work for any agency that does not have such an award for my whole career your first statement is ignorant of the facts. You second sentence above goes beyond ignorant for it has no reference for the basis of the question.
|
| joe wiggs |
Posted - December 11 2011 : 4:14:28 PM
You may be the most childish adult i have ever had the displeasure to correspond with! Do you believe the nonsense you write. Because your alleged department does not have something no other police force may?
I address a police issue and you respond with a military example! Are you drunk!?! How does the two vastly different situations correlate? The military involvement in war precludes such awards for mass deaths caused by the armed forces. Police officer do not generally go out and kill thousands in one sitting;do they?. Partner, let me suggest a good Psyche, you need assistance!  |
| AZ Ranger |
Posted - December 09 2011 : 08:57:42 AM
quote:
Originally posted by joe wiggs
Once again I apologize, you never got one did you? What a braggart I must seem to be to you. Once again I'm sorry. Mmaybe one day, in another 60 odd years, you may get one.
If the military gave silver stars to everyone that survived a gun battle it would have no value would it?
Again you show your ignorance. We don't have silver star or any star awards so you comment is impossible. We do have officer of the year award for total performance. |
| joe wiggs |
Posted - December 03 2011 : 10:22:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by AZ Ranger
Joe my comments are based upon your statement of my position. It has nothing to do with your beliefs. We can have different beliefs but here is what you stated:
Az insists that Indian testimony is the trash of reality, incapable of making sense nor rationality. Yet, the ambiguous, contradictory, ridiculous testimony of the "white" testimony at the the Reno Inquiry he has no comment to refer to, pro or con.
For that I can call you a pathetic liar. Show us where I stated that was my belief in any previous post. If you can't than your statement of my belief is a lie and a pathetic one at that.
AZ Ranger
Here I go again, making an apology! You must be sorely frustrated with me and I don't blame you. Here I am chastising you for calling someone (me)you never met a "pathetic Liar" as if you automatically understood why I would do such a thing. If an individual has no "class" and is up in age, you certainly can not teach class to them. It is what it is!
here's some more advice. When you differ in opinion with another adult present facts not juvenile innuendo. Oops, there I go again;drat! |
| joe wiggs |
Posted - December 02 2011 : 8:22:21 PM
Once again I apologize, you never got one did you? What a braggart I must seem to be to you. Once again I'm sorry. Mmaybe one day, in another 60 odd years, you may get one. |
