| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Anonymous Poster3458 |
Posted - July 27 2004 : 11:07:26 AM
I was wondering why there is no cemetery or memorial marking the spot where the bodies of the defenders of the Alamo are buried (or for that matter where the bodies of the Mexican Army dead were interred)? Most battlefields, such as the Little Big Horn or Gettysburg mark the spots where the dead were laid to rest. I was also wondering if there had been any sort of "battlefield archaeology" done at the Alamo as at the LBH to determine the location of bodies, causes of death, types of uniforms/weapons used, etc. I suppose that if bodies were buried at the site, there might still be some durable artifacts still there, such as metal buttons or buckles, boots, bullets, etc. that would show up with some sort of metal detection devices. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Seguin |
Posted - February 03 2008 : 11:46:11 PM
Sgtmajor, here´s a link to a list of all the excavations done at the Alamo through the times and their results! There´s even an air photo showing where the various excavations took place!
Here´s the link:
http://alamostudies.proboards58.com/index.cgi?board=archaeology&action=display&thread=1197638328 |
| Seguin |
Posted - January 05 2008 : 01:52:15 AM
Here, Sgtmajor! I found something about an Alamo excavation:
Alamo dig racking up a hefty bill
04/26/2007
John Tedesco
Express-News
Sifting through four cubic meters of dirt and artifacts dating to the Battle of the Alamo will add at least $150,000 to the city's tab to renovate Main Plaza. Preliminary work is scheduled to begin today at what archaeologists believe is a trench dug by Mexican troops in 1835 before Texian rebels seized San Antonio and the Alamo.
The surrender of Mexican Gen. Martín Perfecto de Cós to the Texians set the stage for Cós' brother-in-law, Gen. Antonio López de Santa Anna, to lay siege to the Alamo on Feb. 23, 1836.
Last month, construction workers discovered the trench after they scraped through a street near the plaza's southeast corner to install a storm water drainage line. The discovery has excited local archaeologists and history buffs. On a recent afternoon at the site, Kay Hindes, a city archaeologist, showed off a broken sword point, a well-used gunflint and other artifacts that have already been found. "Isn't that beautiful?" Hindes said as she held colorful pieces of unearthed pottery.
But the painstaking process of digging up relics comes at a price. An April 17 proposal written by Eugene Foster, project coordinator with Austin-based contractor PBS&J, says the archaeological site demands more than 1,500 man hours — at $100 an hour — to excavate and study. Coupled with the work of initially analyzing the site and other costs, the bill could total $176,000.
The proposal did not include the costs involved if any human remains are discovered; any special laboratory testing, such as carbon dating; and any treatment to conserve sensitive materials, such as steel or iron artifacts. Public Works Director Tom Wendorf signed off on the proposal by PBS&J on April 20, writing in the margins: "OK to bill up to $150,000." Further costs would have to be approved by Wendorf.
Reached by phone Thursday, Wendorf said PBS&J's original proposal was much higher. "Quite frankly, when I saw their initial proposal of $250,000, I was pretty flabbergasted," Wendorf said. Wendorf said he suggested using volunteers from the Southern Texas Archaeological Association to sift through the material at a more cost-effective location to whittle down costs and stoke public interest.
"There are people here in this community who are interested in archaeological stuff and that kind of thing," Wendorf said. PBS&J was "going to have zero engagement" with them, he said. A message left with PBS&J wasn't returned Thursday. Foster's proposal estimated the volunteer work would save the city $8,000. Wendorf said the savings would be higher.
Main Plaza's renovation and drainage improvements — a project championed by Mayor Phil Hardberger — is expected to cost "in excess" of $10 million, Wendorf said, with funding coming from the city, county and private donors.
The $10 million tab included a cushion for potential archaeological discoveries. But with the Main Plaza project still in its early stages, the $150,000 excavation already puts the city over its estimated archaeological cost, which Wendorf said was around $100,000.
Hindes, the city archaeologist, said researchers today will begin clearing a layer of protective sand placed over the site, and the excavation could start in earnest early next week. A precise schedule hasn't been hammered out, but Hindes said volunteer archaeologists will sift through the soil and artifacts next week at a city-owned property near downtown where the public will be welcome to watch.
Starting on the heels of Fiesta, a 10-day festival originally started to commemorate the 1836 Battle of San Jacinto, the excavation offers a physical connection to the city's rich history, said Mark Denton, an archaeologist with the Texas Historical Commission.
"It's going to be neat if they can get it going while Fiesta's still on," Denton said.
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| Seguin |
Posted - January 05 2008 : 12:38:45 AM
You bet, Sgtmajor109th!
- Seguin |
| Anonymous Poster3983 |
Posted - January 05 2008 : 12:32:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Sgtmajor109th
Well if you come across anything let me know.
You bet, Sgtmajor109th! |
| Sgtmajor109th |
Posted - December 22 2007 : 5:03:09 PM
Well if you come across anything let me know. |
| Seguin |
Posted - December 22 2007 : 1:54:44 PM
There have been some excavations done in and around the alamo through the years, but it´s hard to get hold of the excavation reports.
I´m sure they´re right when they say that the "artifacts" in the shops around the Alamo don´t sell the real stuff although the shopkeepers say so. |
| Sgtmajor109th |
Posted - December 05 2007 : 2:28:09 PM
Sorry about that I hit the wrong tab. Anyway in 90 when I was there, there
was an article written in local news about a equipment dump that was located
out 100 to 200 yards in front of the Alamo. The article went on to say that
they had made some soundings of the area and detected large metal objects and
some smaller ones. The feeling was that there may have been connon barrels
and and pherhaps some shells and parts of rifles down ubder ground.
However when I went back they said they were still working on the project. I
never heard anymore. While there I also asked alot qestions about anything
that may have been found. I was told that at one time there was a hotel built
along side of the Alamo, and like any battlefield people took what ever they
could find. Many shops around the area claim to have rifles, knifes, bullets
and shells which you can buy. However people at the Alamo tell you to be care
ful as most if not all came from else where. |
| Sgtmajor109th |
Posted - December 05 2007 : 2:14:32 PM
I had visited the Alamo, 90,93,and 92. While therein 90 had read an interesting |
| Seguin |
Posted - December 05 2007 : 02:26:10 AM
quote:
Originally posted by frankboddn
I'm just curious, when you say the ashes were gathered by Juan Seguin a year later, gathered from where? If they lay in their original spot where they were burned, after a years time wouldn't they have been blow in the wind and soaked in by the rain and elements? I'm just surprised there would have been anything left to gather. Thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous Poster4124
I haven't read anywhere that the bodies of the Alamo Defenders were stripped. It was a very bloody battle and many of the bodies were mutilated. The bodiew were carted east of the Alamo, stacked with cords of wood and burned.
The remains, (ashes) of the Defenders were collected by Captain Juan Seguin, the following year and were interred at the San Fernando Church, where they remain today.
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous Poster3458
I read somewhere that the bodies of the Alamo defenders were also stripped by the Mexican army before they were burned or buried, and that would also account for the lack of any durable items such as metal buttons or boots. I do not know what happened to the bodies of the Mexican soldiers, but suspect they were probably stripped naked also before being buried in mass, anonymous graves. It was the custom in war back then to recover anything useful from a battlefield, including from you own dead troops, so most casualties were picked clean by the victors or by the local peasants.
Yes, it´s true that the remains lay out in the open after being burnt for about a year before Seguin gathered them. A big part of the remains were probably gone by then due to weather conditions and wild life. Seguin gathered what was left and held a memorial service. Then he buried the remains in a coffin in the San Fernando church. A coffin was later discovered by archeologists in the church and is now at display there. It´s believed to be the same coffin that Seguin buried there, but nobody knows for sure... |
| frankboddn |
Posted - August 06 2005 : 02:35:41 AM
I'm just curious, when you say the ashes were gathered by Juan Seguin a year later, gathered from where? If they lay in their original spot where they were burned, after a years time wouldn't they have been blow in the wind and soaked in by the rain and elements? I'm just surprised there would have been anything left to gather. Thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous Poster4124
I haven't read anywhere that the bodies of the Alamo Defenders were stripped. It was a very bloody battle and many of the bodies were mutilated. The bodiew were carted east of the Alamo, stacked with cords of wood and burned.
The remains, (ashes) of the Defenders were collected by Captain Juan Seguin, the following year and were interred at the San Fernando Church, where they remain today.
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous Poster3458
I read somewhere that the bodies of the Alamo defenders were also stripped by the Mexican army before they were burned or buried, and that would also account for the lack of any durable items such as metal buttons or boots. I do not know what happened to the bodies of the Mexican soldiers, but suspect they were probably stripped naked also before being buried in mass, anonymous graves. It was the custom in war back then to recover anything useful from a battlefield, including from you own dead troops, so most casualties were picked clean by the victors or by the local peasants.
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| Anonymous Poster7100 |
Posted - December 20 2004 : 10:14:15 PM
i have always wondered why it took so long to bury them.did it take that long for the people to come back to bexar? or was it not a priority? |
| Anonymous Poster4124 |
Posted - November 14 2004 : 6:15:07 PM
I haven't read anywhere that the bodies of the Alamo Defenders were stripped. It was a very bloody battle and many of the bodies were mutilated. The bodiew were carted east of the Alamo, stacked with cords of wood and burned.
The remains, (ashes) of the Defenders were collected by Captain Juan Seguin, the following year and were interred at the San Fernando Church, where they remain today.
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous Poster3458
I read somewhere that the bodies of the Alamo defenders were also stripped by the Mexican army before they were burned or buried, and that would also account for the lack of any durable items such as metal buttons or boots. I do not know what happened to the bodies of the Mexican soldiers, but suspect they were probably stripped naked also before being buried in mass, anonymous graves. It was the custom in war back then to recover anything useful from a battlefield, including from you own dead troops, so most casualties were picked clean by the victors or by the local peasants.
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| Anonymous Poster4124 |
Posted - November 14 2004 : 6:09:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Anonymous Poster3458
I was wondering why there is no cemetery or memorial marking the spot where the bodies of the defenders of the Alamo are buried (or for that matter where the bodies of the Mexican Army dead were interred)? Most battlefields, such as the Little Big Horn or Gettysburg mark the spots where the dead were laid to rest. I was also wondering if there had been any sort of "battlefield archaeology" done at the Alamo as at the LBH to determine the location of bodies, causes of death, types of uniforms/weapons used, etc. I suppose that if bodies were buried at the site, there might still be some durable artifacts still there, such as metal buttons or buckles, boots, bullets, etc. that would show up with some sort of metal detection devices.
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| Anonymous Poster3458 |
Posted - July 28 2004 : 10:43:26 PM
I read somewhere that the bodies of the Alamo defenders were also stripped by the Mexican army before they were burned or buried, and that would also account for the lack of any durable items such as metal buttons or boots. I do not know what happened to the bodies of the Mexican soldiers, but suspect they were probably stripped naked also before being buried in mass, anonymous graves. It was the custom in war back then to recover anything useful from a battlefield, including from you own dead troops, so most casualties were picked clean by the victors or by the local peasants. |
| Anonymous Poster8169 |
Posted - July 27 2004 : 8:22:00 PM
The bodies were burned, and their ashes collected and reinterred in a church a year after the battle. I think there's a shrine to the dead there.
There's been some archaeological work done at that site, but you're not going to find much. Unlike the Little Bighorn, the Alamo was in a public area that has always been occupied and traipsed over by people. Nothing was left to just lie there. I think both the Mexican and US armies used it for military purposes after the battle, so they would have had to have cleaned up the mess, and anyway, almost from day one it was a popular tourist attraction, with the requisite souvenier hunters.
R. Larsen
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