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richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
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 Posted - April 03 2021 : 2:46:50 PM
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The "On the Trail of the Last of the Mohicans" has been tormenting the web for 25 years. Its creation started with a very old program called QuickSite, by 2 people who were raw novices when it came to the Internet. It soon migrated to FrontPage, and eventually, its successor, Microsoft Expression Web. The novices got a little better at it, but it was far from professional looking. It was built over years and parts kept getting added on willy nilly. It shows. Some of the pages are quite good, some of the pages are a horror show to read.
Looking over some of the work makes me cringe. Not to mention the coding is ancient now and thus much of the site is broken. So I figured maybe it is time for a complete overhaul to bring it up to today's standards. Up to now, I have still been using Expression Web for any minor updates I make. Now, I find myself "on the trail" of some new website design software.
What I've found out is just how out-dated it really is. Much of the new software programs I have tested [Coffee Cup, Xara, WYSIWYG Webbuilder] don't even use HTML and so a proper import is out-of-the-question. There are quite a few free and/or open-source programs out there but they pretty much just do what Expression does. It, if it were to proceed, would become a tedious & monumental task. I can't even figure out the new, modern programs. It feels much as it did when I bought my first PC with designs to get into desktop publishing for my little book. A lot of blank stares at my monitor.
I really want to do this, but I doubt I have the patience or stamina to take on a gigantic endeavor like this. Perhaps I would take a more tempered approach and just "fix" the cringe-worthy pages that are difficult to read or "broken" in some way. That is still a pretty large project.
We'll see. I do have the time, so that's good.
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Monadnock Hiker
Colonial Militia
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
August 31 2017
Status: offline
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 Posted - April 03 2021 : 3:49:14 PM
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| No way I can offer any assistance - my "computer/programming" skills are pretty much stretched to the limit once this things lights-up after it's turned on. - Besides, any problems you see with the site - are problems that "only you see." |
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 17 2005
Status: offline
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Posted - April 04 2021 : 2:59:47 PM
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I have an old website I created in the 90's for my own personal use, and to learn html programming. I had hoped to be involved with our company's website, but they ended up farming it out (which of course was a mistake and one which they paid for later). And perhaps I was perceived as a little to "independent" and stepped on a few toes. Later on I created a website for a reenactment unit I am in. I created both of these from scratch on a blank screen. Later on I used some code generator programs to try and make things a little easier. But I found that these programs generate too much code and when you inevitably have to tweak some small part by hand, it is a nightmare to find it. Eventually I ended up with Coffee Cup, which I still use today. Used to be it had a wysiwyg feature which was great, but it became incompatible with newer code, and they eliminated it in favor of some coding options. I still use it today. But I don't use their built in features. I just write the code and use the split screen function to see the results instantly. Works for me.
But if you want to get some in depth information about various coding options, this is the best site I have ever used.
<< https://www.w3schools.com/ >>
You can literally find instructions on anything, try it out, and see the results, all on their site. It's free, also.
So when I am doing something, and I think "wonder if I can co this" I go to W3Schools and look it up. |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
Administrator |
Posted - April 05 2021 : 2:53:10 PM
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You're hired, Fitz! Kidding ...
No, seriously are you using the CoffeeCup HTML Editor or the full-blown Site Designer? I tried both. The Editor was much like what I already use, though I may have missed some of the features. Site Designer was waaaay beyond my understanding. I could import all the images, but the text would have to be done by copy & paste. As for all the modules, components, resources, and foundations ... no clue. There was a time I would have refused to be conquered and would have tenaciously tinkered & played until I figured the damn thing out. These days, it's all I can do to drink my 3 cups of coffee.
Probably yet another thing I'll end up scratching off my bucket list.
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 17 2005
Status: offline
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Posted - April 06 2021 : 07:49:42 AM
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I use the Editor Version 12. I have never tried the site designer. It does sound a little like the old Coffee Cup where you saw the site itself in the editor and simply typed in what you wanted to say and cut-and-paste the images. It became an issue of "what I want to do" vs. "what the programs says I should do". At one time I simply used a word processor to write the code, but the Editor lets me see what I have just written without having to save and access the code in a browser. If I were doing this for a living, then the site designer might make sense. But I don't. And my sites are simple and don't change very much. And I store my code in blocks so that I can select the block that fits my needs for this particular situation, and then use "as is", or modify it. Same thing I did when I was programming for the main frame at the company I worked for.
I have a friend who does do this for a living. I think I will ask him what software he uses.
One time, about 20 years of so ago, I thought I might like to get into site design when I retired. So I volunteered to help a friend who was hosting a national USFA tournament (F=fencing), and I was a real learning experience for me. It was just like working for my company. I had to please people I had never met, and didn't know. I thought I would be working with my friend, but he had a sponsor who insisted on doing things his way and wanted to make changes every day. The big thing I learned was to always own the server space you are using. The domain name and server space were owned by someone else (who had planned to do the work and get paid for it) and he pulled my access. The whole thing didn't end well, and if I had it to do again, I would opt out. I do a site for the South Carolina Rangers, and I own the most used domain name extensions (.com and .org) and the server space the site resides on. I decide how things look and how they are done, and if I want something on the site I put it there. No problems. I am open to suggestion, and I will listen, but I make the decisions. Lesson learned.  |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
Administrator |
Posted - July 17 2021 : 1:44:28 PM
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| Well, I have taken the plunge! I am actively working to update and clean up the entire website. How thorough and effective this will be is hard to say, but every day I have been editing a half dozen pages, in no particular order [mostly alphabetically] to fix broken links, missing images, remove or update old applets & and snippets of code that no longer display properly. Perhaps, too, I will update a small amount of content. The biggest change will be that I am completely redoing the main page and all the menu pages - Musings, Gatherings, History, etc. I bought CoffeeCup Site Designer and have been learning it and playing around with it. Once completed, the site's "packaging" - so to speak, will be quite different [I think]. A refreshed look. However, the content inside will remain the same, aside from the fixing stuff I mentioned. We'll see how this all turns out. There's a guy on the CoffeeCup forum who has been helping me out and shortening the learning curve a bit. He's just a user - has nothing to do with the company - but he's very active on the forum and is essentially paying me house calls from Bali via video. He has been a Godsend! He's originally from the land of the redcoats. There are times when he sounds very much like Daniel Day-Lewis |
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Monadnock Hiker
Colonial Militia
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
August 31 2017
Status: offline
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Posted - July 17 2021 : 2:16:44 PM
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| Good luck Rich .... Hopefully the "main page" will show all the "recent posts" regardless of where it's located - like the Bunkhouse, Quote Of the Day etc. ... looking forward to it. |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
Administrator |
Posted - July 20 2021 : 1:53:45 PM
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I'm not sure what you mean, John. What I call the "main page," or index, is this page:
On the Trail of the Last of the Mohicans
What throws me is the reference to the "Bunkhouse." I don't think there is any mention of the Bunkhouse there. I am not going to change anything on this forum, just the static pages of the website. But then, you mention the Quote of the Day. That IS on the "main page." I am trying to have that remain, but am having trouble with how it displays. I may just move it here with This Day in History.
The recent posts thing will definitely remain here and I will try to implement it on the new "main" page, as well. |
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Monadnock Hiker
Colonial Militia
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
August 31 2017
Status: offline
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Posted - July 21 2021 : 09:13:46 AM
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| Pretty tough to explain Rich. - "Back when" I opened the site the "main page" automatically displayed everything from the Bunkhouse, News, Colonial Times, F&I War pages - everything the site had. "Somehow" maybe I'm the only one that saw that. - When someone posted anything new, including a reply, that page "went to the top" of the list - really great. - It's fine just the way it is ... keep up the great work & thanks for everything you've done. - Wish a had a "screen shot" to show you - but alas, don't. |
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 17 2005
Status: offline
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Monadnock Hiker
Colonial Militia
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
August 31 2017
Status: offline
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Posted - July 22 2021 : 09:13:14 AM
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| No - that's what I'm getting now Fitz. - I really wish I had a "snap-shot" of what I had - but this is just fine too. - It displayed the "last 12 dispatches" - but all "vertically aligned" with the last post or reply automatically on the top - not in a box. |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
Administrator |
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Monadnock Hiker
Colonial Militia
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
August 31 2017
Status: offline
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Posted - July 22 2021 : 7:38:35 PM
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Nope - Rich this a great "just the way" it is. - Don't know how I ended up with what I had - probably an accident on my part. Thanks for everything you've done.
.
Depending on the weather - probably another trip up to No. 4 this weekend. |
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 17 2005
Status: offline
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Posted - July 23 2021 : 07:36:58 AM
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| Wish I could be there. Take some pictures. |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
Administrator |
Posted - September 04 2021 : 2:33:04 PM
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Well, in as much as these things can ever be truly "finished," I am finished with my little overhaul. It took me from July 8 - September 3. I undoubtedly missed some things, so I will probably tinker a bit. See? I'm already saying it's not finished.
The "outside shell" of the site is all redone in Coffee Cup's Site Designer, that is the main page and all the menu-section pages, plus a couple of others. Every single web page was edited - mostly minor stuff, but I did clean up links, broken images, and other messy bits. I did want to do more, but Microsoft Expression Web does some very weird things that I couldn't quite alter in my HTML editor. Plus, my mentor sort of disappeared.
It's a lot better than it was - I think - at least it doesn't quite appear to be some ramshackle, abandoned house.
So, that's that! |
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Monadnock Hiker
Colonial Militia
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
August 31 2017
Status: offline
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Posted - September 04 2021 : 7:33:27 PM
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| Looks great Rich - well done. - Well, at least until you tinker a tad more. |
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 17 2005
Status: offline
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Posted - September 05 2021 : 07:27:26 AM
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| So you use Coffee Cup for the code? I have been using that for years. I liked it when it was WYSIWYG, but it still does a good job with the split screen option. |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
Administrator |
Posted - September 05 2021 : 2:19:02 PM
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Just started to use that as an editor, Fitz. Ancient looking, but, yes, it does do the job. Odd that Site Designer cannot import HTML directly.
Thanks, MH! |
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Fitzhugh Williams
Mohicanland Statesman
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 17 2005
Status: offline
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Posted - September 06 2021 : 07:40:50 AM
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| I found that a lot of site designer programs use way too much code. They list everything possible then only use what you need. Which is OK until you want to sort through the code to make a simple change. Then it takes forever. I learned by writing my code from scratch, so I go through my pages and add lines and spaces to separate the items I see on the screen. Then it's ease to add notes, like "event cancelled", or to copy and paste blocks of code when a site has a new event later on. Sort of old school but it works. |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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![The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]](images/wwwboard.gif "The Mohican Board! [Bumppo's Redux!]")
The Once Every 5 Years Update
