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Adele
The Huggy Merchant
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
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 Posted - May 23 2003 : 02:39:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lainey
*GASP!!!!!!* ... are you sure you're allowed to have good discussion off board? It sounds downright dangerous. Selfish, too.
But - a little late to prevent your browser burnout syndrome - have you found any that are satisfactory? There are several excellent sites that present & argue both positions. I know I've got some bookmarked ... somewhere ... let me know if you still need 'em!
Well, I have to admit, I could use your debating skills on this one! Actually, I am having fun with it, my friend was raised a Jehovah's Witness, and although lapsed (can you be a lapsed Jehovah's Witness?!) he still believes wholly in the teachings of that religion. He is very knowledgeable about religion in general, and able to maintain a very good discussion - I am really enjoying it. The thing that I have REALLY learned though, is how great the gaps are in my own understanding of the theory of evolution, and I have doing rather a lot of website reading to try and fill some of those gaps.
Anyway, in answer to your question I HAVE found some good websites, not exactly what I am looking for, but plenty to get me started! If there is any site in particular you think might be helpful to me, I could still use the link though!
HM
PS After reading up a little, I am beginning to think that Jehovah's Witnesses get a really bad press compared to other mainstream religions...what do you think? |
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Lainey
TGAT
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 18 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - May 27 2003 : 01:42:37 AM
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http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ355.HTM
Adele, I think this one ought to keep you sufficiently tied-up for a spell. It's one of the best - a reposting of pro/con arguments that involved several persons & covers every plausible question on the subject & the counter arguments. Very, very good ...
quote:
The thing that I have REALLY learned though, is how great the gaps are in my own understanding of the theory of evolution, and I have doing rather a lot of website reading to try and fill some of those gaps.
You mean ... missing thinks?
quote:
Actually, I am having fun with it, my friend was raised a Jehovah's Witness, and although lapsed (can you be a lapsed Jehovah's Witness?!) he still believes wholly in the teachings of that religion. He is very knowledgeable about religion in general, and able to maintain a very good discussion - I am really enjoying it.
Well now, Adele ..... if he still believes wholly in the "teachings of that religion" he wouldn't be a lapsed believer, he'd simply be a lazy believer. And, given the mind controls, public shunning, purposefully humiliating reprimands, & disfellowship so critical & so implemented within this organization, no - one can not be a lapsed Jehovah's Witness.
quote:
After reading up a little, I am beginning to think that Jehovah's Witnesses get a really bad press compared to other mainstream religions...what do you think?
 You really want me to answer?
Okay - Jehovah's Witnesses are neither mainstream nor a religion. They are a sect, a cult, an organization. And a deceptive organization at that. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the so-called "teachings" but for starters, they are not, despite popular myth which the WatchTower sells, Christian. If not Christian - why do they quote from & make the sales pitch from the Gospels in which one reads the Testament of Jesus Christ, Lord & Savior - Son of God/Son of Man - & why would they "invite" you to "join" them in Bible Study during which there is no Bible actually studied? (Well, there is a neatly bound copy usually set out on the coffee table during study time but it stays as it lays while WatchTower tracts are studied in its stead.) Hey - don't get me wrong. They dress nicely, they have impeccable manners, & they are the most skilled salespersons this side of a poker game. So, no, though I know they've not been well received in various European countries, I don't think they're getting a bum rap at all.
quote:
The agreement was made as a result of the U.S.' efforts to tighten security following the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks and in the wake of the passing of the U.S. Aviation and Transport Security Act.
Why does the air have the smell of the Reichstag Fire???? |
"Fides et Ratio" |
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Adele
The Huggy Merchant
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - May 27 2003 : 04:29:10 AM
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Thanks very much for that link Lainey, I will give it a serious read tonight.
quote:
You mean ... missing thinks?
Hehehehe..I have a lot of missing thinks, I think!!
quote:
Okay - Jehovah's Witnesses are neither mainstream nor a religion. They are a sect, a cult, an organization. And a deceptive organization at that.
Ok Lainey, I just HATE it when you beat around the bush...for once, could you just say what you think!!!  Seriously though, don't get me wrong, I am hardly ready to convert, just trying to form a fair and informed opinion here! But it does raise the question again, what is the difference between a religion and a cult...is it mind control? If so, doesn't all religion use an element of that? Maybe I should just get you two together to debate, it would be a lot easier! Hmm, any JW's lurking on the board like to come forward?!
HM |
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Theresa
Bumppo's Tavern Proprietress
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - May 27 2003 : 07:33:57 AM
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| Not to claim to know a whole lot about the Jehovah's Witness, I am a little familiar with some of the things they allow. At school, they are not allowed to say the Pledge of Allegiance, they are not allowed to participate in any school parties, not even Christmas, they do no celebrate Christmas. My daughter's senior year in high school there was a young man on the baseball team who was Jehovah's Witness. The team was in the state championship game on Friday night, he came to bat just as the sun was beginning to set, steps to the plate, hits a homerun, goes to the dugout and gathers his equipment, leaves with his parents....and his team went on the win. You wouldn't meet a nicer fellow and family. And that's the extent of my dealings with them other than an occassional knock at the door. |
Theresa |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - May 27 2003 : 7:12:52 PM
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Some day, we're gonna devise a "topic splitter" for threads that get way off topic ... but, till that time:
When I lived in California, back in '74, some Jehovah's Witnesses came a-knockin, and purely out of boredom, I invited them in. For several weeks thereafter, they came every week for a "discussion." I think it was on Wednesdays. They were nice folks. Two ladies, I think, if I remember correctly - maybe not. Maybe it was a man & a woman. Anyway, we argued their philosophy quite vehemently.
They made no impression on me, apparently, as the only thing I can remember from our discussions is that they insisted it a sin to have long hair - a male, that is.
That did it for me!!!! |
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Bea
Keeper of the Western Door
Canada
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 18 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - May 27 2003 : 11:35:25 PM
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HAHA, good one, Rich!!
Yes, a topic splitter would be a good idea as this is going OT big time!!
My experience with Jehova Witnesses has been mixed. I met some very nice ones who never tried to force their beliefs upon me and we just respected each other's ways ( although I felt sorry for one lady when she stepped out of a room because we celebrated a birthday). One of my closer friends was a JW and turned away from it due to some its harshness..I also remember a court case here in Southern Alberta where a father fought for his daughter to get a desperately needed blood transfusion..:(
My most recent experience was with two ladies that came to my door who were rather rude. I had politely informed them that I was happy with my church when one of them asked me about my denomination. I told them I was Christian Reformed which prompted them to say: Oh, first you were Christian and now you're reformed ????THAt did it for me.:):) Anyway, I patiently explained to them about the reformation, Calvinism etc.:) |
Carpe Diem |
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Lainey
TGAT
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 18 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - May 28 2003 : 12:32:47 AM
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It's been off topic a long while (though still within 6 degrees in its own bizarre little way) despite scattered attempts to bring it back to the original questions;
1) Is the 'Hague Invasion Act' just blubbering hot air politicking, or is it an aggressive declaration of intimidation?
2) Which is more dangerous; the supra quam sovereignty mandate for justice of the ICC or the supra caput perpetual war/global domination policies of the New American Century neo-cons?
The question of cult vs religion; new thread ... |
"Fides et Ratio" |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
Administrator |
Posted - May 28 2003 : 05:47:15 AM
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| Ah, Lainey ... the human topic splitter ... |
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