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Kirachi
Colonial Settler
United Kingdom
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 Posted - February 12 2008 : 06:52:15 AM
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Ok, this may have been touched upon before but having a quick scan back through the topics I couldn't see anything that stood out.
So, the question is, why do you think Uncas didn't wait for his father before running after Alice?
Do you think he thought he could win the battle ahead easily?
Was he worried for Alice's safety?
Did he think his brother would need his father's help to escape the village?
I personally don't understand his mind set at this point in the movie. He seems like he has a good head on his shoulders and has seen a lot of fightening during his short life.
Surely the extra 10/20 minutes that the Huron party got ahead of them was not that huge a distance really. Was he so certain they would kill Alice on the cliffs? to me this thought seems unlikely as they were making for somewhere new, taking her with them for whatever ends.
I love the fact it's all very romantic though and in the end is that the reason?
Discuss! 
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winglo
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Posted - February 12 2008 : 4:36:58 PM
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Ah, and now you've touched on the crux of the matter. I have thought about this a lot and believe that if this one action had been different (if Uncas had waited) then the whole story would have ended differently. Perhaps Alice, Cora, Uncas, Hawkeye and Chingachgook may all have lived. Then again, perhaps there would have been more death. Without the distraction from Uncas at the front of the line of Hurons, they may have all turned and fought our brave gentlemen, who surely would have gone after Alice, for Cora's sake, if for no other reason. So, it could have made the situation better and it could have made it worse.
This one action also strengthens the believe that Uncas had strong feelings (love?) for Alice. His behaviour was irrational at this point, and it wasn't elsewhere in the movie. Maybe he was "crazy in love" and wasn't thinking with his head, but with his heart. And that's the romantic part. So, maybe that was Michael Mann's point. (I don't think, however, that was Mr. Cooper's point when he wrote the book.) |
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Kyfrontiersman
Colonial Militia
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Posted - February 12 2008 : 6:18:08 PM
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Yep, ole Uncas had the same syndrome most young men get, show off for
a pretty lady, you might just get noticed. And he ended up the way I always
did, he got hurt, except a bit worse.  I've finally come to realize, everytime
I show off for a pretty face I'm going to get hurt. I showed off for my Nancy
this past Spring by picking up a 5 foot log that weighed well over 150 pounds.
When I threw it into the woods I felt every muscle in my lower back tearing.
So that night and up to and including 2 weeks to a month I paid the penalty
of extreme pain. This is something I've done since I 1st noticed girls at about
5 years old. Now I think I'm finally learning that if the lady doesn't take notice,
don't show off. It's not worth it guys!!!!  |
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"Kentucke, situated on the fertile banks of the great Ohio, rising
from obscurity to shine with splendor, equal to any other of the
stars of the American hemisphere." ...... John Filson |
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Obediah
Mohicanland Statesman
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Posted - February 12 2008 : 7:31:23 PM
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...which just goes to prove the old saw:
"There's no fool like an old fool; nothing beats experience!" Just kidding Bud; I just wanted to post that one for a long time & you gave me the perfect opportunity! |
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Kirachi
Colonial Settler
United Kingdom
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Posted - February 13 2008 : 06:07:34 AM
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Intresting stuff Winglo and Mike.
Good points too, I still think it was mainly a plot device to have most of us blubbing helplessly everytime we watch it but of course the whole love angle is most appealing I think I'm going to go with that one haha
I personally would have shoved Alice off the edge and saved Uncas from making a big mistake after all he was really in love with ME, he just didn't know it |
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winglo
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Posted - February 13 2008 : 3:48:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirachi
I personally would have shoved Alice off the edge and saved Uncas
He was certainly more worth saving than she was. I found Alice's character so incapable that it's difficult to watch sometimes. I just want to shout, "Would you DO something?" But, she is young. Maybe I should give her a break. It's just not the kind of woman I would expect Uncas to be interested in. But, there's no accounting for love, I guess. |
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Kirachi
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Posted - February 14 2008 : 09:50:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by winglo
quote:
Originally posted by Kirachi
I personally would have shoved Alice off the edge and saved Uncas
He was certainly more worth saving than she was. I found Alice's character so incapable that it's difficult to watch sometimes. I just want to shout, "Would you DO something?" But, she is young. Maybe I should give her a break. It's just not the kind of woman I would expect Uncas to be interested in. But, there's no accounting for love, I guess.
Hmm you're right but perhaps he likes the fact he feels he has to protect her. |
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Kyfrontiersman
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Posted - February 14 2008 : 10:27:31 AM
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Any self respectin' Frontiersman would'a protected her as well.
Well spoken Kirachi. But he should'a taken cover 'n shot him
from a distance.  |
http://rumpingproductions.org/
"Kentucke, situated on the fertile banks of the great Ohio, rising
from obscurity to shine with splendor, equal to any other of the
stars of the American hemisphere." ...... John Filson |
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Hawkeye_Joe
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Posted - February 14 2008 : 5:40:14 PM
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Winglo saidquote:
(I don't think, however, that was Mr. Cooper's point when he wrote the book.)
No, Cooper had Uncas and Cora in love.... |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
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winglo
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Posted - February 15 2008 : 5:36:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_Joe
No, Cooper had Uncas and Cora in love....
Yeah, I did know that. Perhaps you can give us more insight regarding whether there was any sign in the book that Cora loved Uncas, or was it just one-sided--he was interested in her, but not vice versa.
And how big a part of the story was this "love?"
Sorry, I've tried to read the book several times, but just can't get through it. |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
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Posted - February 15 2008 : 6:48:41 PM
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To understand Uncas' behaviour in those final moments you need to look at NA culture for the time frame.
NA held women as live givers and therefore women were highly esteemed and respected. In most NA cultures the man would have to pursue the lady but the lady would choose weather or not to marry him. If a man could not win a lady, that could bring life into the world for him he was considered worthless. So to prove themselves they would show their strength and honor through different things. Such as hunting, tribal status, competition, and war.
Uncas had to take Magua one on one to bring honor to not only himself but Ching, Hawkeye, and Alice. If a warrior needed help to defeat one man he would have been assumed weak and dishonorable. No women would want a worthless man like that. A proven warrior, who would also be considered a man, did not need help fighting a fight he chose to fight. He fought it and mostly knew it was to the death for one or the other.
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Kirachi
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Posted - February 15 2008 : 7:11:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Light of the Moon
To understand Uncas' behaviour in those final moments you need to look at NA culture for the time frame.
NA held women as live givers and therefore women were highly esteemed and respected. In most NA cultures the man would have to pursue the lady but the lady would choose weather or not to marry him. If a man could not win a lady, that could bring life into the world for him he was considered worthless. So to prove themselves they would show their strength and honor through different things. Such as hunting, tribal status, competition, and war.
Uncas had to take Magua one on one to bring honor to not only himself but Ching, Hawkeye, and Alice. If a warrior needed help to defeat one man he would have been assumed weak and dishonorable. No women would want a worthless man like that. A proven warrior, who would also be considered a man, did not need help fighting a fight he chose to fight. He fought it and mostly knew it was to the death for one or the other.
Fantastic insight Light. I understand his reasonings a little more now.
Still what a waste eh  |
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Kyfrontiersman
Colonial Militia
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Posted - February 15 2008 : 9:32:24 PM
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But Light, M'dear, she weren't no injun, she were
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http://rumpingproductions.org/
"Kentucke, situated on the fertile banks of the great Ohio, rising
from obscurity to shine with splendor, equal to any other of the
stars of the American hemisphere." ...... John Filson |
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Hawkeye_Joe
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Posted - February 16 2008 : 08:21:23 AM
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But Mike, she weren't injun but he did not know another way of wooing her. It's his actions not her's that are being questioned.
winglo, I don't know if she loved him, Cooper's long wordy rambling make it hard to figger out, I'd say that she "admired" him. Cooper was a man of his times and I don't think he would have written that a white woman would have been truely "in love" with a red man. I think the reason they both died in the book was a Freudian payback for them even having thoughts of being in love. Uncas died for having loved Cora, Cora died to keep from being a wife to Magua, a fate worse than death. They always saved that last bullet for the wemmenfolk, remember?? |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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Kyfrontiersman
Colonial Militia
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Posted - February 16 2008 : 09:57:30 AM
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| Good points Joe, reckon I'm kind'a thick headed sometimes |
http://rumpingproductions.org/
"Kentucke, situated on the fertile banks of the great Ohio, rising
from obscurity to shine with splendor, equal to any other of the
stars of the American hemisphere." ...... John Filson |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
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Posted - February 16 2008 : 10:15:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_Joe
Cooper was a man of his times and I don't think he would have written that a white woman would have been truely "in love" with a red man.
I agree with your statement, Joe, with a qualification.
I have not read the book (I have also tried several times and couldn't make it!), but if I recall from other discussions, Cora was not white. She was a woman of mixed race, due to her father's alliance with a woman of color in the West Indies. In short, she was a "mulato."
I think perhaps Cooper created her character that way so that he could sort of "push the envelope" and imply that there was love interest between the Cora and Uncas. |
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RedFraggle
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Posted - February 16 2008 : 4:51:45 PM
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Oh, no. Someone mentioned Cooper's novel (one of my favorites, incidentally). Brace yourselves for a really long post. . . . 
quote:
Originally posted by Wilderness Woman
quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_Joe
Cooper was a man of his times and I don't think he would have written that a white woman would have been truely "in love" with a red man.
I agree with your statement, Joe, with a qualification.
I have not read the book (I have also tried several times and couldn't make it!), but if I recall from other discussions, Cora was not white. She was a woman of mixed race, due to her father's alliance with a woman of color in the West Indies. In short, she was a "mulato."
I think perhaps Cooper created her character that way so that he could sort of "push the envelope" and imply that there was love interest between the Cora and Uncas.
Yes, Cora is of mixed race in Cooper's book. As for her and Uncas, Cooper could not overtly describe them as being in love with each other, due to the prevailing racial prejudices at the time he was writing. (This, incidentally, is also why he makes Cora a mulatto: depicting a white woman in love with an Indian would have been utterly scandalous for the time; depicting Cora as a mulatto served to make the romance element more palatable to Cooper's audience, though still not entirely acceptable.)
Cooper does "push the envelope" quite a bit with the Cora/Uncas storyline. He never states explicitly that they are in love, but settles for a few, heavy suggestions. If anyone cares, here are two rather suggestive episodes:
(1.) When they are hiding in the cave behind the falls, Cora suggests that the men jump the falls, leaving the women behind. Chingachgook pronounces her advice good, and he and Hawkeye go over the falls. Uncas, despite his father's pronouncement, stays behind, telling Cora, "Uncas will stay." She pleads with him to go, "lowering her eyes under the gaze of the Mohican, and, perhaps, with an intuitive consciousness of her power." She finally persuades him to join his father and Hawkeye by asking him to be her "most confidential" messenger by delivering news of her capture to her father. His "settled, calm look" changes to "an expression of gloom" but he follows Cora's wishes. He jumps the falls and, "{a}fter the last look at Uncas," the ordinarily stalwart Cora turns, "and with quivering lip," addresses Duncan.
(2.) At the end of the novel, Uncas leads the charge to get Cora (not Alice, as in the movie!) back from Magua, who is leading her to a Huron village to make her his wife. Uncas is rash and impetuous in attempting the rescue: "the moment his eyes caught the figure of Le Subtil, every other consideration was forgotten" and he rushes out ahead of Hawkeye, who has the opportunity to fire on the Hurons but forebears "in tenderness to Uncas." Uncas rushes on "as if life to him possessed but a single object." In the fight that ensues over Cora, one of Magua's henchmen stabs her in the heart and Uncas, though severely wounded, "struck the murderer . . . by an effort in which the last of his failing strength was expended." His dying act is to avenge her murder!
Later, Cora is wrapped in Indian robes for burial, and she and Uncas are buried together, while Delaware maidens mourn over them. Cora and Uncas' deaths have occurred so close to one another "as to render the will of the Great Spirit too manifest to be disregarded." The Delaware maidens counsel the spirit of U |
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Fitzhugh Williams
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Posted - February 16 2008 : 6:56:13 PM
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| Which make me wonder, how did they get from the land of the Huron to that of the Delaware? That's one long trip! |
"Les deux pieds contre la muraille et la tete sous le robinet" |
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winglo
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Posted - February 17 2008 : 4:58:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RedFraggle
Later, Cora is wrapped in Indian robes for burial, and she and Uncas are buried together, while Delaware maidens mourn over them. Cora and Uncas' deaths have occurred so close to one another "as to render the will of the Great Spirit too manifest to be disregarded."
Pretty heavy suggestion, no? 
More than a suggestion, I would say.
Red, how does Cora die? Does she commit suicide or is she killed? (By the way, HOW did you get through that book?)
And, to get back to the original topic. . .we can probably rest assured that Uncas went after Alice because he was interested in (loved?) her. Mann doesn't make it too clear in the movie, but apparently a romantic relationship was part of Cooper's original story. |
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Light of the Moon
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Posted - February 17 2008 : 9:42:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirachi
Fantastic insight Light. I understand his reasonings a little more now.
Still what a waste eh
Yeah. *sniff* Brings me purt near to cryin' every time! |
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Kirachi
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RedFraggle
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Posted - February 19 2008 : 09:24:41 AM
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Mu ha ha ha ha!  Once again I've succeeded in killing a thread after a long lecture on Cooper. I have a knack for that. Sorry. Let's see . . . Alice and Uncas.
I'm a skeptic when it comes to "love" between the two in Mann's film, so I'll say Uncas felt a responsibility to protect Alice because Hawkeye and the Mohicans had failed to protect the Cameron family. Perhaps he sees Alice as a younger, frailer version of Alexandra, for whom he clearly had tender feelings. Now, send out the firing squad. I'm ready!  |
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winglo
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Posted - February 19 2008 : 3:58:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RedFraggle
I'm a skeptic when it comes to "love" between the two in Mann's film, so I'll say Uncas felt a responsibility to protect Alice because Hawkeye and the Mohicans had failed to protect the Cameron family. Perhaps he sees Alice as a younger, frailer version of Alexandra, for whom he clearly had tender feelings. Now, send out the firing squad. I'm ready!
I'm not going to shoot, all I have to say is, "What?"
At this point in the story, I highly doubt he was even thinking about the Camerons.
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Light of the Moon
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Posted - March 30 2008 : 9:31:53 PM
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 Congrats, Red! You killed another one! |
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Michelle
Pioneer
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Posted - April 26 2008 : 11:02:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RedFraggle
Mu ha ha ha ha! Once again I've succeeded in killing a thread after a long lecture on Cooper. I have a knack for that. Sorry. Let's see . . . Alice and Uncas.
I'm a skeptic when it comes to "love" between the two in Mann's film, so I'll say Uncas felt a responsibility to protect Alice because Hawkeye and the Mohicans had failed to protect the Cameron family. Perhaps he sees Alice as a younger, frailer version of Alexandra, for whom he clearly had tender feelings. Now, send out the firing squad. I'm ready!
I Aagree with you regards Alexandra,-he did care for her-and she died-so sudden,and they *Alice/Alexandra,did look alike also...i feel.Uncas feelings-we saw when he saw Alexandra's,body at the cabin-with the famly killed,cabin-destroyed.Its a real shame as not only did he die himself for protecting someone he cared about-but also-both women died ...who he had feelings for...What was MM thinking...should've been a happy ending not a sad/confusing one...but i loved the film eithwe way...but hey...they are in heaven now  R.I.P....Beloved ones.... |
Hi,im very much Interested in joining you all.I would love to know more about this venture.This would be my first time/so making new freinds in this community would be amazing. |
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Michelle
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Posted - May 18 2008 : 10:48:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye_Joe
Winglo saidquote:
(I don't think, however, that was Mr. Cooper's point when he wrote the book.)
No, Cooper had Uncas and Cora in love....
Hi Hawkeye....I was just going through your email here and i am confused to the film,why did they change the love interest- with Uncas and Cora would've suited very well indeed if they had not of changed the story from the book-what was mann thinking of...uncas came aross a strong man-so was Cora as the film moved along...i noticed in the medical room-i could see some-close interest-between them both,did anyone not see- was a tender moment-loved that scene-was a nice little-short scene between them-but then interupted...never-mind.I just can not beleive its now 16yrs now since the film was made-time has realy gone...and charactors are now so old...i know Madaline Stowe looks great for her age....and so dose Danial Day Lewis...maybe they can bring back....one day and still have Uncas in,who knows my mind is wondering  Always good to have idears come forth and think maybe this or maybe that...would be a great film to re-do...would be so popular...but would never be the same...as the Classic-i have to say.
My thought is maybe with the scenes they deleted-they could reincarnate certain charactors and bring more love interest in and looking at each charactor more with depth in there history/life-aswell as the love/death that was so strongly portrayed in the *CLASSIC* |
Hi,im very much Interested in joining you all.I would love to know more about this venture.This would be my first time/so making new freinds in this community would be amazing. |
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Uncas, your thoughts on his behaviour
