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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
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 Posted - June 03 2006 : 1:13:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by paazau
quote:
Originally posted by Wilderness Woman: I doubt that she would have even been there at the time.
...why would she not have been there at the time???
Since I sort of highjacked the Uncas-Lovers' thread about Eric's movies, I decided to move this discussion to a better place.
I stated that Molly would not have been at Johnson Hall at the time they depicted her being there in the movie Broken Chain. This is because various accounts of her life, although they differ in the details, agree that after Sir William died in 1774, she and her children left Johnson Hall (at Johnstown, NY) and went back to the Indian Castle where she was born, located farther west on the Mohawk River. Johnson Hall was left to Sir William's son John.
The Battle of Oriskany took place in 1777. There is a highway marker near Little Falls, NY that is located on what once was the property of my 4th great-grandfather Lt. Henrich Zimmerman. This marker states that "from this point, Molly Brant watched the Tryon County Militia, under General Herkimer, gather and leave to march to the relief of Fort Stanwix." The story goes that Molly then sent a runner to warn her brother, Joseph Brant, of the approaching militia. The result was the ambush and resulting Battle of Oriskany.
At some point, as the war progressed, Molly and probably the rest of the Mohawk nation fled the Mohawk Valley and went north to Canada. In addition, I don't think that Johnson Hall was ever burned. All of Sir William's lands were confiscated in 1779, as Loyalist properties, by the Americans. One story states the Joseph Brant took his tomahawk and made marks in the bannister of the staircase as a sign to his warriors that they should not burn the house. True? Who knows?
But it does seem to be pretty improbable that Molly Brant would have been sitting inside a burned house that was no longer hers, in the middle of the Revolutionary War, during which she and her people were considered to be the enemy.
Again, the beauty of this movie lies in its highly-praised, accurate depiction of the customs, dress, and life-styles of the Iroquois nations... not for its colonial historical accuracy.
Hope this helps, Paazau. Be sure to do more reading about Molly Brant. She was a very interesting woman.
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lonewolf
Colonial Settler
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February 12 2004
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Posted - December 26 2006 : 01:50:14 AM
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Greetings Wilderness Woman,
William Johnson appears on one of the "branches" of my family tree. He was much respected by my Seneca and Oneida ancestors, one of the few white men who dealt fairly with Indians. Interestingly, "Molly" is also the name of my Seneca 4x great-grandmother, wife of Oneida Chief White Peter, who was allied with the British in the Revolution and the War of 1812. There must have been something special about Indian females taking the name of "Molly", since many took this English name.
Speaking of Iroquois ancestors, some of my relatives include Queen Aliquippa from the Pittsburgh area, as well as Chief Cornplanter (half-Irish John O'Bail; except that he seldom ever used his white name), and Chief Redjacket, all Senecas.
In the French and Indian War, my Shawnee people were enemies of the Senecas and Oneidas and the rest of the Iroquois Nations, but we sided with them and the British in the Revolution in order to stop the "white flow" of settlers to the Ohio/Allegheny Valley areas near Pittsburgh.
My white 4x great-granfather, Sgt. John James Black, was killed in battle fighting my Shawnee people. Chief Thayandanagea(Joseph Brant), and his Mohawks fought with us at the Battle of Lochry's Run just off of the Ohio River near the borders of Ohio and Indiana in August of 1781. One or two of the infamous Girty brothers supported my Shawnees at this battle (Simon Girty was not present at this fight, so I assume that it was either George or James, or both of these two).
My Shawnee 4x great-grandfather, Willenawah (Great Eagle), fought at Fort Necessity in 1754 with the French, at the Braddock Battle on the Monongahela River in 1755, again with the French, and at Bushy Run in 1763 in support of Chief Pontiac's Rebellion. He died in 1777 during the Revolution.
One of my white ancestors, Robert Morris from Pennsylvania, signed the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. The only delegate to sign all three. He shares a grave in Philadelphia with his life-long friend Benjamin Franklin.
Another white 5x great-grandfather, Benjamin Chambers, an Irish immigrant, founded Chambersburg, Pennsylvania in the early 1700's. He named it Falling Springs, and eventually it became Chambersburg. His sons fought with Gen. George Washington in the Revolution, and were with Gen. Washington at Valley Forge in the very cold winter of 1777-78. One of the Ben Chambers' sons with the Continental Army at Valley Forge, Ezekial Chambers, is my white 4x great-grandfather from this line. My Oneida ancestors broke with Iroquois Six Nations British alliance and brought food to Gen. Washington's starving army at this place. I can be sure that my Chambers family members appreciated the food, since they were reduced to boiling and eating their leather gun straps, shotbags and shoes.
I am proud of all of these ancestors, since their DNA makes me who I am.
Today, I have more Native American relatives than those of European heritage. Our diverse families never merged by marriage until the late 1800's to the early 1900's.
I have relatives who are Chippewa, Shawnee, Seneca, Oneida, Cherokee, Wyandot (Huron), Munsee, Choctaw, Miami, and possibly two or three more tribal groups.
On the white side, I have Pennsylvania Deutsche (German Amish), Scot (captured 4x great-grandmother, Elizabeth Gray; 1755), English and Welsh.
My English family members came to Pennsylvania on the same ship as William Penn in the late 1600's. Half of the passengers and crew died of smallpox on the voyage to America, prior to unloading at Philadelphia.
My Palatine German ancestors came here by the generosity of good Queen Anne of England, who paid their passage to America. Some later joined the Annabaptist Amish religious sects who came to Pennsylvania.
My Welsh ancestors came here in 1170 (322 years before Columbus "discovered" Haiti), and throug |
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paazau
Colonial Settler
Australia
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
March 11 2006
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Posted - January 25 2007 : 02:23:09 AM
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As they say, "Better late than never", so I'll post my belated "thank you WW for the info". (I've not been around much lately, and have only just found this thread).
Putting all the historic details together, I can see why you made that statement now. Many thanks for putting it all together for me.
And, I will do more reading on Molly Brant I believe.
Thanks again Wilderness Woman. |
"You do not know what you're saying girl!"
"Yes I do, I know exactly what I am saying, and if it is sedition, then I am guilty of sedition too!" |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - January 25 2007 : 3:05:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by paazau
As they say, "Better late than never", so I'll post my belated "thank you WW for the info". (I've not been around much lately, and have only just found this thread).
Putting all the historic details together, I can see why you made that statement now. Many thanks for putting it all together for me.
And, I will do more reading on Molly Brant I believe.
Thanks again Wilderness Woman.
Oh! Well, you're quite welcome. I've missed seeing you around here, and hope you can come back to stay! |
"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Molly Brant and Sir William
