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Stan
Pathfinder
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
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Gadget Girl
Gatherer of Gathering Gadgets
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
 Posted - August 23 2002 : 12:26:26 AM
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Point taken Ilse! I respect your opinion. My opinion is that not one person on this board had a 360 degree perspective on the issues of last summer. Obviously I missed some portion, because I wasn't aware you had been wronged in the course of things. Of course, I do tend to poke my head in the sand at the first sign of conflict - that is just me, I make no apologies there. We all have different perspectives, all have different ways of dealing with conflict, therefore I don't possibly see how a rehashing of "charges" could be productive. I do think there has been some discussion of these issues in private, which is where it should be. I found Adele's quote to be an excellent one, and I, for one, would prefer silence on issues that may never be reconciled. I took your message to mean that you felt that those that left should "debate" their way back into the fold. I have to disagree there. If there can't be forgiveness among friends, then their can't be true friendships! Some of us have been here a long time, some like you more than others. And I miss the whole stained-glass collective of personalities that were once such a happy group and I welcome all the new ones. I miss the folks that are gone. I would miss you if you were gone! I somehow got the feeling you wouldn't want them to come back? I'm afraid I don't understand that perspective. I feel like most folks would like to see some closure to this - a GOOD closure, not one that suits a few. I have seen Rich make every effort to patch any holes he may have been responsible for, then Bill apologizes for any holes he may have caused. I don't get it. I thought that was a good thing. There was a definite polarity defined in this occurrance and I believe any discussion that re-defines that polarity is negative and not beneficial to Rich's goal and not real constructive to the board as a whole. *Have you noticed yet that I abhor conflict*
Ilse, I promise I did not mean all this in a bad way, I am not good at writing what my heart feels I'm afraid. I mean no disrespect, just that I felt I had to say I felt very differently and saw Bill's post as a step in the right direction. No hard feelings please!  
Diana
Edited by - gadget girl on August 23 2002 12:33:04 AM |
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Christie
Pioneer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 02 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - August 23 2002 : 12:52:44 AM
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Rebuttal: THIS IS NOT A POPULARITY CONTEST! Rich and Elaine are great friends to all of us by creating a special and unique site about a movie that's very near and dear to our hearts. This has created a "family" of sorts and like all families, some people drive us a little crazy more than others. Heck, I have brother-in-laws I purposely avoid at any family gatherings and when I speak to them on the phone, I keep it short and sweet and ask to speak to my sister or sister-in-law, thus avoiding any further conversation. My point is, if you don't care for someone, just avoid them! It's not that hard to do - skim past their postings on the board. At the gatherings there's so many people and activities, we're not all joined at the hip. It's really easy to fall in with the people you are comfortable with and enjoy their company for the weekend.
Rich and Elaine have created a great new bulletin board with Snitz. At first I was intimidated to navigate but now I love it more than the old bulletin board because you can avoid topics. Rich, Secureman, and Anthony go waaay back and I feel like I'm intruding on their memories sometimes. So I skim past what they've written and let them enjoy their moment. But I know just as easily there are other forums that I can jump right into and feel at home.
Everyone gets hurt at one time or another, because it's human nature. Like Rich, we turn the other cheek and move forward. However, I do think it's fair to say that if the time comes when a hurtful comment has really upset us, then send an email to Rich or Elaine directly and leave the rest us out of it. Again, this is not a popularity contest so there's no reason to make it a civil war and draw lines.
I know I'm not winning any contests here with my comments, but people, let's give Rich and Elaine something positive so they are willing to keep this forum going. They have enough children in their own immediate family so they don't need to add several hundred more.
Christie
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Ilse
The Dutch Trader
Netherlands
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
Donating Member |
Posted - August 23 2002 : 08:23:15 AM
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No hard feelings at all, Diana!
Just to clear up a misunderstanding, though: I haven't been wronged at all in this, it was someone else I was thinking of.
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securemann
Deerslayer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 08 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - August 23 2002 : 11:53:39 AM
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To Christie,You are not intruding at all.You are more than welcome to read our "way back memories"and join in if desired.I know nothing about LOTM and what's going on here but I reflect another time when it was fun and dangerous.Peace.Securemann.
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Belinda
Lost in the Wilderness
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 11 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - August 23 2002 : 12:57:34 PM
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I was sitting here at work listening to the radio...they broke into programming and said with the severe storm we had here in Missouri five people attending a friends funeral were standing under a tree when the storm came out of nowhere and lightning hit them. They are fatalities now. I was thinking to myself that life is short and you need all the friends you can get. With life so short you need some happiness!!!!! I am fairly new to this board and I have been to one gathering. I have met everyone that is at odds right now. I feel that everyone deserves another chance because nobody is perfect and we all have feelings. I have come to love this board and the people that post here and I look forward to the gatherings. I hope with my sad story and my feelings expressed everyone will forgive and forget.
Rich is trying and I hope everyone else does too.
Friends
Belinda
Belinda Starnes |
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Lainey
TGAT
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 18 2002
Status: offline
Administrator |
Posted - August 23 2002 : 11:35:53 PM
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quote:
"Just to clear up a misunderstanding, though: I haven't been wronged at all in this, it was someone else I was thinking of."
And you were right & considerate to do that, Ilse. Especially since that person, more than any other, possesses the privilege of forgiving, turning the other cheek, & determining what is most important in the big picture. If only asked ...
And for your pondering pleasure, some thoughts to think upon -
(Gotta get 'em in where I can! There's a waiting line at the Thought For The Day booth!!!)
"It is easier to love humanity as a whole than to love one's neighbor." ~ Eric Hoffer
"Once made equal to man, woman becomes his superior." ~ Socrates
"And things can never go badly wrong, if the heart be true and the love be strong." ~ George MacDonald
"To say the right thing at the right time, keep still most of the time." ~ John W. Roper
"Our major obligation is not to mistake slogans for solutions." ~ Edward R. Murrow
"Talk not much with a fool, and go not with him who has no sense." ~ Ecclus. xxii
"A faithful friend is the medicine of life and immortality ..." ~Ecclus. vi
"Don't talk unless you can improve the silence." ~ Proverb
"A prudent question is one-half of wisdom." ~ Francis Bacon
"Common sense in an uncommon degree is what the world calls wisdom." ~ Samuel Taylor Coleridge
"Hatred stirs up strifes, and charity covers all sins." ~ Proverbs x
"Chance favors the prepared mind." ~ Louis Pasteur
"Be not deceived, God is not mocked." ~ Galatians vi
"Well begun is half done." ~ Aristotle
"Having let them go, as I must, I fear I will only fight these same men again." ~ Marquis de Montcalm
"The soul is known by its acts." ~ St. Thomas Aquinas
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Adele
The Huggy Merchant
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - August 24 2002 : 04:34:19 AM
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quote:
And for your pondering pleasure, some thoughts to think upon -
(Gotta get 'em in where I can! There's a waiting line at the Thought For The Day booth!!!)
Hey! Not my fault! I can't help it if people have been having more than their quota of 'thoughts' recently!
Way too much thinking going on around here, if you ask me....*wanders off grumbling....*
HM
PS...Like the thoughts tho....well chosen....
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Fitz Williams
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - August 24 2002 : 10:05:56 AM
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quote:
"It is easier to love humanity as a whole than to love one's neighbor." ~ Eric Hoffer
I disagree. I think that the opposite it true. It's easy to generalize and put people into categories, and then dislike all of them, but when you get to know them on an individual basis, it is much harder to dislike any of them.
Of course there are exceptions.
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richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
Administrator |
Posted - August 25 2002 : 09:19:46 AM
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quote:
Bill R. said: That was a very nicely said post Rich. It took a lot of thought, and a lot of character to describe it all as well and as objectively as you did.
I appreciate your words, too, Bill ... but, you are mistaken on one point ... it didn't take a lot of thought at all ... I hurriedly wrote that toward the end of my lunch break. It doesn't take much time, if you reach down in your heart & just let it flow.
So, I've thought about the latest "outburst" here for several days, and have decided to go the same route ... reach in there and see what comes out. Here goes, for better or for worse:
Ilse, I know what you were trying to say, I just wish you hadn't said it ... not then. But, we've resolved that part, you & I.
Bill, I've known you for 5 years or so, and I know that you are more likely to explode than even I am, so, I take what you said with a grain of salt. I wish you could've bitten your tongue that one time. There's no "pot-stirring" or "poisoned well" here, my friend ...
Done with ...
Now, as for the cause ... Hard feelings over a long time, never adequately dealt with, apparently, by any of us involved. So, we ended up with an outcast Lainey, a confused Rich, two discarded webmasters, a humiliated Marcia, vile words, sides taken ... what a mess! But, when you come right down to it, it was ALL avoidable. To make the "issues" bigger than they are, by dwelling on them, gets us back to .. "you said that" ... "yeah, but you did that first" ... "oh yeah, but she said" ...
We'll get nowhere, and that's really someplace I don't want to be. Please stop. Everyone!
Resolution? That was maybe proper long ago ... it's too late to go back there now. For me, it's so much easier, and peaceful, to just forgive and be forgiven. FORGET IT, already. It can be dealt with, if need be, privately & after friendships are renewed ...
OK? So, everyone wants to know ... what's going on?
I don't know. I haven't spoken to Marcia since she went off to Charlotte to be with her family. I know what she'd like me to do ... I've taken that as far as I can and still be true to all. The next move, if there is one, has to come from her. I hope that she can take that step, but perhaps I was over-optimistic a few weeks back. I cannot drag her here, or make her talk with me, or to see things as I see them. She, like I, and everyone else, has to want to fix it & be willing to let go of what it was that caused the bad feelings in the first place. I'm not saying that is easy. I can say this, Marcia knows how I feel. For her part, she has apologized for ever having hurt me or Elaine. That's good enough for me, and then some. She was my Bud, and I hope she'll choose to be so again.
Maybe I'm just a big, stupid dreamer.
Then again, I've been asked to escort one "wayward soul" [just kidding ...] to the scene of The Elk Hunt come October. I was glad I was asked and I'm going to do just that. And, am looking forward to it!
Everyone that needs to know, knows how I feel ... and everyone who ever posted here is welcome back ... by ME. I would do the same for you. It may never happen, but it's a personal choice others need to make; I have little control. I can only leave the door open & welcome them back if they choose to venture in .... I don't want folks to feel like they need to be cautious & dip their big toe in to test the waters. I expect us to welcome anyone returning ... if that day should ever come. We've all shared a lot ... newcomers & old fogies alike ... bad times, good times. That should make the bonds that much stronger, if o |
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