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richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
Status: offline
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 Posted - July 31 2003 : 06:43:15 AM
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On the butt of a muzzleloader, what exactly is the patchbox designed for? And, why was it conceived in the first place? I mean, why isn't there a ball box, or something?
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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 Posted - July 31 2003 : 09:11:44 AM
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The patchbox is designed to hold a supply of pre-greased linen patches for the weapon's bullets. Some old timers would just put a lob of grease in the box itself, and wipe a fresh patch across it instead of trying to separate a pre-greased patch from the stack within the butt. Either way, it was a handy way of speeding up the loading process.
Military rifles (used by specialist troops) continued to sport a patchbox, even after the introduction of the Minie Ball (more correctly called a Burton Ball in U.S. weapons) which did not require a patch to ensure accuracy. The last military rifle to come equipt with a patchbox was the M-1855 Rifle, not to be confused with the M-1855 Rifle-Musket which did not have one (same weapon, different barrel lengths) I hope this helps with your question.
Your Humble Servant,
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
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July 31 2003
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Posted - July 31 2003 : 3:23:55 PM
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| Some carried ball in the patch box, the main reason that it wasn't that popular was that they rattled around and made noise... A friend of mine Jim Moore carries a ball lodged in the triggerguard of his rifle for quick access. The patchbox in many rifles wasn't a box at all but a hole drilled to contain the patch grease the patch being swiped over the grease hole quickly for a second shot. As the learned Sgt. said, the patch box all but disappeared from the rifle in the mid 1800's in both military and civilian use, the grease hole was still very popular in the Southern Mountain Rifles that were carried up to and into the 1900's. |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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Fitz Williams
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
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Posted - July 31 2003 : 10:53:47 PM
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| It's a handy place to keep things like a tow worm, fouling scrape, and a couple of extra flints. You can put your patch and ball in a bag, or a waistcoat pocket, and spit is all you need for a lube. And a canteen of water and some tow are all you need for cleaning. |
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
USA
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September 23 2002
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Posted - August 06 2003 : 11:15:38 AM
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An interesting sidenote, although probably way off track, when the British Army issued the Baker Rifle to select marksman regiments (notibly the 5/60th and 95th) the Board of Ordinance issued the loose rifle balls with the patch already attatched. The earliest recorded issue was during the Pennisula War (circa 1809). I know, I know, "Your way off on a tangent, Sarge".
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Serjeant-Major Duncan Munro
Capt. Thos. Graham's Coy.
42nd Royal Highland Regiment of Foote
(The Black Sheep of the Black Watch)
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
-Or-
"Recruit locally, fight globally." |
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hawkeye
Pioneer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2002
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Posted - August 08 2003 : 09:05:50 AM
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Interesting thread. I've seen patch boxes used for all sorts of purposes. Most of which have been mentioned above.
However, if you'll allow me to stray for a brief moment... Actually, there is a modern rifle that still uses a "patch box" of sorts and has for quite a while. The M-16, M-16/A1, and M-16/A2 have compartments in their butt that store oil and cleaning equipment. That may be a stretch... but that's basically what a patch box has always been used for.
Marc |
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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
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Posted - August 08 2003 : 09:12:36 AM
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| I have a friend who built a Jaeger for hunting and designed the butt trap---proper terminology for a sliding wooden covered "patchbox"---specifically to hold a Snickers bar. When I first looked at the gun and opened the butt trap, saw the Snickers bar comfortably ensconced within, I looked at him quizzically. He smiled and answered my silent question: "I SAID it was a hunting gun!" |
Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle
Seamus
~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~ |
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Sjt. Malcolm MacWilliam
Pioneer
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
September 11 2002
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Posted - August 08 2003 : 09:46:22 AM
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| I have checked with cousin Many Flags and he has shown me his patch box!! Inside he keeps an extra flint, extra greased patching (long strip of cloth which he cuts after he seats the ball in the bore) and a small bird's feather which he can put quill in the touch hole to show that he is loaded...(as in Mark Baker!!) Pax Aye!! Sjt. MacWm. |
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richfed
Sachem
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 13 2002
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Posted - August 08 2003 : 1:04:23 PM
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| I like that last suggestion, Sjt. Thanks. Also like the candy bar idea ... May I switch to a Pay Day? Baby Ruth, maybe? |
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Bill R
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 03 2002
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Posted - August 08 2003 : 2:21:12 PM
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I SUPPOSE you can switch to a Baby Ruth or Payday IF it's Halloween Trick or Treat el cheapo size. I didn't size the patchbox cavity for NO STEEEEENKING CANDY BAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What size is it you ask? Well, the cavity itself is about 1" wide and 3.5" long. Enough to stuff in what the folks above have suggested but NOT NO STEENKING CANDY BAR!!! Not unless you're planning on greasing your patches with chocolate! |
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 31 2003
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Posted - August 08 2003 : 2:21:36 PM
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| I keep a round toothpick for plugging the touchhole when cleaning, a wad of tow, my ball puller and cleaning worm and a couple of greased patches for the final wipe of the bore/pan after cleaning..all of the wadding and patches keep the worm and ball puller from rattling around in there. |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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Dillon1836
Deerslayer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 17 2003
Status: offline
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Hawkeye_Joe
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 31 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - August 08 2003 : 6:44:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill R
I SUPPOSE you can switch to a Baby Ruth or Payday IF it's Halloween Trick or Treat el cheapo size. I didn't size the patchbox cavity for NO STEEEEENKING CANDY BAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What size is it you ask? Well, the cavity itself is about 1" wide and 3.5" long. Enough to stuff in what the folks above have suggested but NOT NO STEENKING CANDY BAR!!! Not unless you're planning on greasing your patches with chocolate!
Don't hold back Bill,.....tell us how you really feel........
Rich . .sounds like you could get two KitKats in there depends on how deep it is.. |
HAWK
"The scum of every nation gravitates to the frontier."
Benjamin Franklin 1750
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for
lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin 1759
The existence of flamethrowers is proof that someone, somewhere, said to himself, "I want to set those people over there on fire, but I don't feel like walking over there to do it."
"Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist."
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Bill R
Colonial Militia
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 03 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - August 08 2003 : 7:00:11 PM
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| 'bout an inch deep. maybe a tad more. Kitkats? candy bars? Poses a question........where do you put the little refrigeration unit to keep them from melting? Inlet under the buttplate? |
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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - August 11 2003 : 06:49:50 AM
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Hey Bill!
Maybe a chocolate patch will shoot further than a silk-patched ball....might get ANOTHER 40 yards.
Hey Dillon!
That's OK....it's not for everyone, and I respect that. It's OK.... |
Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle
Seamus
~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~ |
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Patchbox
