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CT•Ranger
Colonial Militia
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 Posted - October 21 2002 : 9:06:17 PM
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Lets hear some opinions. Could a case be made for King Philip's War as an against all odds victory for the English colonists? In the winter of 1675 it certainly looked like the colonists would be driven into the sea. They just suffered defeat after defeat. During the war 13 English towns were destroyed in New England, and many more attacked (remember there weren't that many towns in New England at this time). Or were the odds against the Natives? This was the bloodiest war in American history when you compare the casualties to the total population. This war sure had long lasting impacts on American history and shaped Native/American relations for the next 200 years. Here are some statistics. For the English about 1,538 deaths per 100,000; for the Natives, 15,000 per 100,000. Compare that to 180 deaths per 100,000 for the Revolution and 857 deaths per 100,000 for the Civil War, or 206 deaths per 100,000 for World War II.
-CT•Ranger
"Now we are glad to learn the skulking way of war.” - John Eliot (during King Philip's War 1675/6)
Edited by - CT•Ranger on October 21 2002 9:13:18 PM
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SgtMunro
Soldier of the King
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Posted - October 21 2002 : 10:45:17 PM
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Excellent topic choice, Ranger. Not many people realize that 'King Phillip's War' was one of the first that included a confederacy of indian tribes against white settlers. Metacomet (King Phillip) would be a trend setter, so to speak, who's idea of joining different tribes together against a common foe would be copied (either intentionally or not) by other great warriors like Pontiac, Techumseh and Sitting Bull (Just to name a few). An good book on this conflict is Jill Lepore's THE NAME OF WAR.
Your Humble Servant,
Sgt. Duncan Munro
Capt. Graham's Coy
1/42nd Royal Highlanders
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" |
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CT•Ranger
Colonial Militia
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Posted - October 21 2002 : 11:39:15 PM
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Another first in King Philip's War was the use and adaptation of Native irregular warfare tactics by the English, resulting in the first rangers led by Benjamin Church. I would say that it was this learning of "...the skulking way of war." by the English, was the turning point in the war and their main cause of victory. This radical idea of Church's, to combinine Native irregular tactics with English technology and military organization, won the war for the English, and effected much of later American military history. A good book covering the tactics of the New England Natives and English in the 17th Century is "The Skulking Way of War" by Patrick Malone. Also, Douglas E. Leach's "Flintlock and Tomahawk" is a great narrative of the events of the war. And Schultz and Tougias' "King Philip's War" has a good narrative covering the events plus a excellent guide to the battlefields with maps and photographs of the sites as they appear today. And of course no study of King Philip's War would be complete without Benjamin Church's Diary and Mary Rowlandson's Captivity Narrative.
-CT•Ranger
"Now we are glad to learn the skulking way of war.” - John Eliot (during King Philip's War 1675/6) |
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SgtMunro
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Posted - October 22 2002 : 09:06:17 AM
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Unfortunately Ms. Lepore's work does not give an in depth look at Benjamin Church. I ordered "KING PHILLIP'S WAR", "THE NARRATIVE OF MARY ROWLANDSON'S CAPTIVITY" and "FLINTLOCK AND TOMAHAWK" last night, as per your suggestion. Do you know where I might obtain a copy of "BENJAMIN CHURCH'S DIARY"?
Thanks for the suggestions,
I Remain,
Sgt. Duncan Munro
Capt. Graham's Coy
1/42nd Royal Highlanders
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" |
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CT•Ranger
Colonial Militia
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Posted - October 22 2002 : 10:29:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SgtMunro:
Unfortunately Ms. Lepore's work does not give an in depth look at Benjamin Church. I ordered "KING PHILLIP'S WAR", "THE NARRATIVE OF MARY ROWLANDSON'S CAPTIVITY" and "FLINTLOCK AND TOMAHAWK" last night, as per your suggestion. Do you know where I might obtain a copy of "BENJAMIN CHURCH'S DIARY"?
Thanks for the suggestions,
I Remain,
Sgt. Duncan Munro
Capt. Graham's Coy
1/42nd Royal Highlanders
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit"
Schultz anf Tougias' "King Philip's War" has a short section of Church's diary in it. The copy I've used in my research came from my University library. I did find a copy of Church's diary titled "Diary of King Philip's War" edited by alan and mary simpson at barnes and noble's website www.bn.com. This link should take you to the page:
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=30YII35PU7&isbn=0871060523
hope this helps,
-CT•Ranger
"Now we are glad to learn the skulking way of war.” - John Eliot (during King Philip's War 1675/6) |
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SgtMunro
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Posted - October 22 2002 : 2:28:04 PM
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Thanks Ranger, I'm on it.
Sgt. Duncan Munro
Capt. Graham's Coy
1/42nd Royal Highlanders
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" |
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CT•Ranger
Colonial Militia
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Posted - October 22 2002 : 9:30:19 PM
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Sgt. Munro, hope you have fun reading. I agree Ms. Lepore's book pays little attention to the military events of the war. Unfortunately King Philip's War has become a forgotten footnote in American History. I remember back in my advanced placement U.S. History class in High School the text book devoted 1 paragraph to the conflict. That was the first time I heard of it. My university history courses paid no attention to it at all except one class which studied Mary Rowlandson's Captivity Narrative as an example of female literature from 17th century New England. I've often thought about reenacting this period, I find it facinating. My family history goes way back to this area, one of my ancestors Jabez Howland served in Benjamin Church's compnay. But of course there's very few King Philip's War reenactors out there. Recently a group of F&I reenactors in New England has recreated Church's Company: http://www.snowshoemen.com/Church.htm.
-CT•Ranger
"Now we are glad to learn the skulking way of war.” - John Eliot (during King Philip's War 1675/6) |
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SgtMunro
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Posted - October 22 2002 : 11:14:44 PM
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You are right again, Ranger. The coverage given to King Phillip's War is the victim of the public education system. This is unfortunate because, it least in my own opinion, it was a critical juncture point for the 'American' identity (as Ms. Lepore points out). I believe that if the British Crown had not acted with such indifference toward the security concerns of the early colonists, American independence could have been put off for at least another hundred years, if not longer. Then again, look at how long the F&IW was looked at by people as nothing more than a 'prologue' to the American Revolution. There may be hope for increased enlightenment yet, my friend.
Your Humble Servant,
Sgt. Duncan Munro
Capt. Graham's Coy
1/42nd Royal Highlanders
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" |
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SgtMunro
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Posted - October 22 2002 : 11:17:11 PM
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P.S.- I checked out your link, very impressive site. I see your reserch of that period has paid tremendous dividens. Good show!!!!
Sgt. Duncan Munro
Capt. Graham's Coy
1/42nd Royal Highlanders
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" |
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Edmund McKinnon
Colonial Settler
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Posted - October 23 2002 : 02:26:14 AM
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This is a good topic, however many people don't even know anything about the French & Indian War much less this one(save the avid F&I student).What really needs to get out were that there were four(Queen Anne's,King Phillip's,King George's then F&I)wars.EM
Capt.John Graham
Cmdr.42nd Highlanders |
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SgtMunro
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Posted - October 23 2002 : 03:59:09 AM
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Correct Captain, but I think what you meant is King William's War, Queen Anne's War, King George's War and The French and Indian War. Also known as The War of Spanish Sucession, The War of Austrian Sucession and The Seven Years War (at least from the European side of the conflict(s).
Your Humble Servant,
Sgt. Duncan Munro
Capt. Graham's Coy
1/42nd Royal Highlanders
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" |
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Edmund McKinnon
Colonial Settler
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Posted - October 23 2002 : 2:47:56 PM
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Yeah,what you said.That's the ticket!
Capt.John Graham
Cmdr.42nd Highlanders |
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SgtMunro
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Posted - October 24 2002 : 01:06:31 AM
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No problem, Captain, I have occasional bouts with "30-Something Alzheimers" myself from time to time. As you would already know...
Sgt. Duncan Munro
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richfed
Sachem
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Posted - October 26 2002 : 07:33:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SgtMunro:
Metacomet (King Phillip) would be a trend setter, so to speak, who's idea of joining different tribes together against a common foe would be copied (either intentionally or not) by other great warriors like Pontiac, Techumseh and Sitting Bull (Just to name a few).
I'm not sure I'd list Sitting Bull among those other Indian leaders you mention ...
One could argue, I suppose, that he joined the Northern Cheyenne, Arapaho, and all the Lakota (and some Nakota & Dakota) tribes at Little Bighorn ...
BUT ... the Northern Cheyenne had long been allies with the Sioux (Lakota) - [even though, they had earlier been disposessed of their land by same!] - there were but a literal handful of Arapaho present in that grand encampment, and the Nakota & Dakota [eastern members of the Sioux Nation] were of the same "stock" and most all were merely remnant representatives.
There is no doubt that Sitting Bull, a great Spiritual leader - more so than warrior at this stage [in fact, Sitting Bull was never much of a warrior during the Sioux's struggles with encroaching European Americans] - managed to unite representatives of the entire Sioux Nation, among those who continued to roam the plains freely [and some young warriors from the reservations looking to make their mark]. He was a Champion of the Sioux [book of same title!] but never implemented a grander vision of uniting various tribes against a common enemy as did the other leaders you mentioned. He was no Tecumseh in that regard. In fact, one could easily list as many Indian Nations - or more - who fought AGAINST the united Sioux in 1876 as those who sided with them! i.e. Crow, Arikara, Shoshone ... |
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SgtMunro
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Posted - October 29 2002 : 12:16:40 AM
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Your right Rich, Crazy Horse was his primary War Captain, but it was Sitting Bull's diplomatic efforts amongst the Sioux (Who really had a 'family' problem worse than the Iroquois before confederation) that place him in the same class as a Tecumseh. In addition to the distance covered by his efforts was exceeded only by Pontiac. I guess you could compare him to a Hiawatta? What do you think?
Your Humble Author,
Sgt. Duncan Munro
Capt. Graham's Coy
1/42nd Royal Highlanders
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" |
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richfed
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Posted - October 29 2002 : 08:15:44 AM
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Still don't see him in the same category as the other Indian leaders you mentioned ... The Sioux, being nomadic, were dispersed over much larger areas than any of the eastern tribes, so, I think, any reference to distances covered is quite relative.
Don't get me wrong, Sitting Bull was a GREAT leader ... of the Sioux [some of them, anyway] ... he was a true Patriot of his people.
But, he was not of the mind to unite all Indians against a common foe, and that, again I think, separates the others from him. It wasn't till well after Little Bighorn, and his Sioux coalition was broken up and being defeated in detail, that he went so far as to even seek the alliance of his mortal enemy, the Crow tribe.
Two different animals, I have to say ... |
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SgtMunro
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Posted - October 30 2002 : 03:12:40 AM
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I can see your point, Rich. More importantly, I see where I overlooked the obvious. I have a tendency of doing that, every now and then. I stand corrected.
Your Humble Servant,
Sgt. Duncan Munro
Capt. Graham's Coy
1/42nd Royal Highlanders
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" |
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richfed
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Posted - October 30 2002 : 04:35:59 AM
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| Whew! Thought I mighta had me hand full here!!! |
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SgtMunro
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Posted - October 30 2002 : 7:32:05 PM
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Awwwww, Sachem Rich, according to Lady Munro I'm just a big fluffy teddy bear.
Sgt. Duncan Munro
Capt. Graham's Coy
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richfed
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Posted - October 31 2002 : 05:03:54 AM
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| Is the Lady willing to put that in writing!?! |
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SgtMunro
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Posted - October 31 2002 : 09:40:40 AM
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Aye, and I would never disagree with "She Who Must Be Obeyed", because winter is coming and its a cold night, outside. I have just about finished the Schultz and Tougias book "King Phillip's War", the Ranger sure guided me right on this (no suprise there, huh?), you might want to check it out, Rich.
Your Humble Servant,
Sgt. Duncan Munro
Capt. Graham's Coy
1/42nd Royal Highlanders
"Nemo Me Impune Lacessit" |
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gopita
Lost in the Wilderness
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Posted - November 30 2005 : 6:19:11 PM
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I realize this is an old topic, but just in case, I thought I would post and see what happens. In doing genealogy research about ancestors (Quakers, Pilgrims & Puritans) I ran across King Philip's War. I am shocked at how little there is about this whole period. It's like the Indians saved the Pilgrims and then the Rev War. Boom, end of story.
I am now specifically researching Mary Rowlandson's diary for a play I'm writing for a graduate class at University of New Orleans.
The story that intrigues me the most is the one about Queen Wetamo - Weetamoe - Church used Weetamore, who (according to Lt. Gov. John Easton) "That Captain Church even fears her band. The Queen is someone to be feared for sure."
Anyway, like Philip she ended up with her head on a pole, although the English didn't kill her in battle. She drowned.
Uncas of the Mohicans fought with the English (as you guys probably already know) I'm trying to develop this Uncas character. Does anyone know if Cooper based his Uncas on this earlier one of 1675?
If I'm in the wrong forum could someone point me in the right direction.
Thanks,
Connie
"Every period of the past, when understood in it's own terms, is immediate to the present." David Hackett Fischer |
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Victoria
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Posted - December 01 2005 : 09:11:27 AM
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There is also the War of Jenkins'Ear.
V |
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CT•Ranger
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Posted - December 01 2005 : 10:53:41 AM
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I believe Cooper's character was based on the historical Uncas in name only. For historical info on the real Uncas, you might want to try:
Uncas: First of the Mohegans |
YMHS,
Connecticut•Ranger
Thomas Thacher
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gopita
Lost in the Wilderness
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 Posted - December 04 2005 : 12:18:48 PM
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Thanks Thomas and Victoria. I ordered the book on Uncas.
C
"Every period of the past, when understood in it's own terms, is immediate to the present." David Hackett Fischer
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Bookworm
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Posted - December 06 2005 : 08:45:33 AM
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| "Red King's Rebellion" by Russell Bourne is very informative on the subject of King Philip's War and the society in which it took place. It contains some information on Mary Rowlandson's captivity and on Weetamoo ("a severe and proud dame she was"). My nice hardbound copy comes from a used bookstore and is inscribed by the author, "For Dick, with best wishes -- Russell Bourne." If the next Gathering has an auction for Ariel, I'll donate the book -- it's perfect for Rich, if only he'd change his nickname! |
Bookworm
"I've gotten so fascinated with the eighteenth century, I'm going to stay there." -- David McCullough
"Nothing to it, brother." -- Barack Obama |
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King Philip's War 1675/6
