| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Ilse |
Posted - October 03 2003 : 5:55:30 PM
The trailer is now available at:
http://www.lordoftherings.net/index_rotk_trailer.html
Can't wait!!! |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| SgtMunro |
Posted - January 26 2004 : 11:13:45 PM
I agree with your assesment Ariel, that being no screenplay would have satisfied her. Perhaps Dr. Flieger should log some time in the real world working for a living. This way she would appreciate a movie like LOTR for what it is, a way for folks to get a three hour break from work, household obligations, making the bills, 'terror alerts', etc.
Your Most Humble Servant, |
| asegal |
Posted - January 26 2004 : 10:35:37 PM
More on University of MD Professor Verlyn Flieger.
First, the bad news...
http://www.inform.umd.edu/News/Diamondback/archives/2003/12/15/news13.html
Tolkien expert doesn't like Rings trilogy
"Lousy. Poorly written. Poorly acted."
Maryland's Tolkien expert - English professor Verlyn Flieger - says that about her view of Director Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings trilogy. The third and final installment of the Middle Earth saga will be released in theaters Dec. 17. And while fans around the world have embraced Jackson's vision of Tolkien's universe, Flieger has taken a decidedly contrary view of the films.
"I think the (Lord of the Rings) films are lousy, poorly written and in many instances poorly acted. There's also too much emphasis on special effects. That subverts one of the book's great strengths, which is the power to awaken the reader's imagination. These films, in fact, leave nothing to the imagination," Flieger said in a statement.
----------------------
The OneRing.net had an interview w/ Dr. Flieger at
http://greenbooks.theonering.net/guest/files/100102.html
Here is the relevant part:
Q. Last, any comments on Peter Jackson's film of The Fellowship of The
Ring?
A. I didn't like it. But then, it wasn't aimed at me. It was aimed at
the generations who've grown up on Star Wars and hunger for more and more action and greater and greater special effects. Jackson has turned an extremely sophisticated, complex and subtle -- and very long -- story into an action movie that I think satisfies the audience for whom he made it. The time constraint that film format enforces makes it almost certain that, even making three separate films Jackson cannot get the fullness of Tolkien's story into a movie. Three hours of sitting is about the outside limit. After that your bum gets numb.I felt some parts were disastrously miscast, Elrond for example. Not the actor's fault, though if I'd been him I wouldn't have stood for that hairdo. Elijah Wood is just wrong for Frodo -- too young, too pretty, too goggle-eyed. And the script gave the character no chance to develop. His moments of growth in the barrow was omitted; his
bravery when he turns and faces the Black Riders at the Ford was left out in favor of Arwen as Our Lady of the Ford. Galadriel was terrible, and since Cate Blanchett is a fine actor, she must have been directed to perform in that wooden, zombie-like manner. Sean Bean is the only person who played as if he believed who he was. His Boromir was a real person, not a type. I found him totally convincing, and his funeral journey down the river and over the falls was the film's finest moment. Truly moving. Although the script sentimentalized and overdid
the character's repentance at the end. Boromir is not that good. As for un-Tolkienian lines like Gimli's "Nobody tosses a dwarf," and Strider's "Let's hunt some orc," they are beyond comment.
------------------------------
It goes without saying that I don't hold that way!!!!
I suppose that no film version could possibly have satisfied her
-------------------
Still, her works are deserving of praise and go deep into
JRRT's ideas and motifs, I've heard.
Here is her professional info:
http://www.english.umd.edu/faculty/faculty-e-h.html
Verlyn Flieger
Rank: Professor
E-mail: vf6@umail.umd.edu
Telephone: (301) 405-3836
Degree: Ph.D. Catholic University of America, 1977
Books: A Question of Time: J. R. R. Tolkien's Road to Faerie (1997); Splintered Light: Logos and Language in Tolkien's World (Eerdmans, 1983);
Articles: 20 articles published in such collections and journals as Saga: Best New Writings on Mythology, Women and Utopia: Critical Interpretations, Tolkien: New Critical Perspectives, and Studies in the Literary Imagination;
Fellowships/Prizes: NEH Grant, National Institute for Secondary Teachers on Greek Mythology, 1989.
Teaching/Service: Lilly-CTE Award for Departmental Exc |
| Lainey |
Posted - January 24 2004 : 12:34:21 AM
quote:
Hi all! Amazing discoveries!!!
First, a bit of extreme pedantry. When I said earlier that
I had seen the Hobbit cartoon before I knew about LOTR,
that was not really true. My mom got me the storybook
to the cartoon and the record (yes vinyl) when I was in
nursery school. I remember a babysitter bringing over
something called LOTR. Then, I was channel surfing in
the mid 80s, and saw a cartoon on TV that looked like the
Hobbit...but how old is Bilbo?! What happened to Gollum!?
Intrigued, I got my mom's old psychedelic Christmas Tree
Emu covered Hobbit and LOTR and read them in Spring 1987,
age 10 1/2. Then I rewatched the cartoons and the Bakshi
rotoscoped version over the next 5 yrs. </pedantry>
----------
1) I was at a Teaching Assistant prep seminar today, and there
was a girl from Kirghizstan named (I kid you not) NAZGUL !!
She said it means "flower" and she gets a lot of jokes
from friends [I told it I had my share of yuks when the Little Mermaid
was named Ariel]
----------
2) There is a Tolkien expert at my school, University of MD.
She strongly dislikes the movies, except for Boromir's performance,
which she says is still not excellent. Still, she loves the books,
so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt...
------------
3) Saving the absolute best for last: In the book _The Road to Middle
-Earth_, by Tolkien scholar T.A. Shippey (Boston: Houghton Mifflin,
1983), p. 223) notes [I abbreviate and paraphrase at times]:
"anyone who reads the 'Introduction' to [an English folk song
book; info available upon request]...will be struck by the strange
resemblance of the mountain country of North Carolina before WWI
to the Shire...Mr Guy Davenport in the New York Times (23 Feb 1979)
records JRRT grilling an American classmate of his for 'tales of
Kentucky folk...family names like Barefoott and Boffin and Baggins
and good country names like that'. Old country names, one might add:
in Kentucky etc., JRRT obviously thought, there had for a time
been a place where English people and English traditions could flourish
by themselves free of the chronic imperialism of Latin, Celtic, and French.
[Here comes the really juicy stuff]
In the same way Fenimore Cooper's hero Natty Bumppo
prides himself on being 'a man whose blood is without a cross';
and Tolkien recorded an early devotion to Red Indians, bows and
arrows and forests [The quote, from "On Fairy-stories" in _Tree and
Leaf_, pp.39-40: "I had no desire to have either dreams or adventures
like _Alice [in Wonderland], and the account of them merely amused
me. I had very little desire to look for buried treasure or fight
pirates, and _Treasure Island_ left me cool. Red Indians were better:
there were bows and arrows (I had and have a wholly unsatisfied
desire to shoot well with a bow), and strange languages, and glimpses
of an archaic mode of life, and, above all, forests in such stories.
But the land of Merlin and Arthur was better than these, and best of all the
nameless North of Sigurd of the Volsungs, and the prince of
all dragons."]
Shippey continues:
The journey of the Fellowship from Lorien to Tol Brandir, w/ its
canoes and portages, often recalls LOTM
, and as the travelers move from forest to prairie, like the American
pioneers, Aragorn and Eomer for a moment preserve faint traces of
'the Deerslayer' and the Sioux...The complaint in one of the
sillier reviews of LOTR, that none of its characters (except Gimli
:)) had 'an even faintly American temperament', is as imperceptive
as irrelevant. Once upon a time all Americans were English
[!? Shippey is generalizing here];
caelum non animam mutant qui trans mare currunt."
[Elaine, what does Shippey mean??]
WHEW....there you have it!!
Now back to Masters' thesis, teaching, class...I won't be posting for
a whil |
| asegal |
Posted - January 23 2004 : 12:25:45 AM
Hi all! Amazing discoveries!!!
First, a bit of extreme pedantry. When I said earlier that
I had seen the Hobbit cartoon before I knew about LOTR,
that was not really true. My mom got me the storybook
to the cartoon and the record (yes vinyl) when I was in
nursery school. I remember a babysitter bringing over
something called LOTR. Then, I was channel surfing in
the mid 80s, and saw a cartoon on TV that looked like the
Hobbit...but how old is Bilbo?! What happened to Gollum!?
Intrigued, I got my mom's old psychedelic Christmas Tree
Emu covered Hobbit and LOTR and read them in Spring 1987,
age 10 1/2. Then I rewatched the cartoons and the Bakshi
rotoscoped version over the next 5 yrs. </pedantry>
----------
1) I was at a Teaching Assistant prep seminar today, and there
was a girl from Kirghizstan named (I kid you not) NAZGUL !!
 She said it means "flower" and she gets a lot of jokes
from friends [I told it I had my share of yuks when the Little Mermaid
was named Ariel]
----------
2) There is a Tolkien expert at my school, University of MD.
She strongly dislikes the movies, except for Boromir's performance,
which she says is still not excellent. Still, she loves the books,
so I'll give her the benefit of the doubt...
------------
3) Saving the absolute best for last: In the book _The Road to Middle
-Earth_, by Tolkien scholar T.A. Shippey (Boston: Houghton Mifflin,
1983), p. 223) notes [I abbreviate and paraphrase at times]:
"anyone who reads the 'Introduction' to [an English folk song
book; info available upon request]...will be struck by the strange
resemblance of the mountain country of North Carolina before WWI
to the Shire...Mr Guy Davenport in the New York Times (23 Feb 1979)
records JRRT grilling an American classmate of his for 'tales of
Kentucky folk...family names like Barefoott and Boffin and Baggins
and good country names like that'. Old country names, one might add:
in Kentucky etc., JRRT obviously thought, there had for a time
been a place where English people and English traditions could
flourish by themselves free of the chronic imperialism of Latin, Celtic, and French.
[Here comes the really juicy stuff]
In the same way Fenimore Cooper's hero Natty Bumppo 
prides himself on being 'a man whose blood is without a cross';
and Tolkien recorded an early devotion to Red Indians, bows and
arrows and forests [The quote, from "On Fairy-stories" in _Tree and
Leaf_, pp.39-40: "I had no desire to have either dreams or adventures
like _Alice [in Wonderland], and the account of them merely amused
me. I had very little desire to look for buried treasure or fight
pirates, and _Treasure Island_ left me cool. Red Indians were better:
there were bows and arrows (I had and have a wholly unsatisfied
desire to shoot well with a bow), and strange languages, and glimpses
of an archaic mode of life, and, above all, forests in such stories.
But the land of Merlin and Arthur was better than these, and best of
all the nameless North of Sigurd of the Volsungs, and the prince of
all dragons."]
Shippey continues:
The journey of the Fellowship from Lorien to Tol Brandir, w/ its
canoes and portages, often recalls LOTM
, and as the travelers move from forest to prairie, like the American
pioneers, Aragorn and Eomer for a moment preserve faint traces of
'the Deerslayer' and the Sioux...The complaint in one of the
sillier reviews of LOTR, that none of its characters (except Gimli
:)) had 'an even faintly American temperament', is as imperceptive
as irrelevant. Once upon a time all Americans were English
[!? Shippey is generalizing here];
caelum non animam mutant qui trans mare currunt."
[Elaine, what does Shippey mean??]
WHEW....there you have it!!
Now back to Masters' thesis, teaching, class...I won't be posting for
a while....but I will see ROTK on a big screen Saturday night!!!
Be well all.
Ariel
P.S. Shippey is |
| Highlander |
Posted - January 14 2004 : 3:45:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SgtMunro
quote:
The hint of Eowyn and Faramir standing together at the coronation makes me hope that there will be more of that particular story in the dvd, since Eowyn is one of my favourite characters.
Considering that the first two 'Extended Version' DVD's had almost 30% more footage a piece, which helped fill in some of the gaps, I am inclined to believe that you will find a similar amount of "hole plugging" in the third one.
Your Most Humble Servant,
That would be good.The more footage,the better. |
| SgtMunro |
Posted - January 14 2004 : 10:41:56 AM
quote:
The hint of Eowyn and Faramir standing together at the coronation makes me hope that there will be more of that particular story in the dvd, since Eowyn is one of my favourite characters.
Considering that the first two 'Extended Version' DVD's had almost 30% more footage a piece, which helped fill in some of the gaps, I am inclined to believe that you will find a similar amount of "hole plugging" in the third one.
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
| Adele |
Posted - January 10 2004 : 7:39:48 PM
Well, I finally got to see ROTK tonight, on my second attempt! Am now suitably stuffed with an obscene amount of toffee popcorn, have several soggy kleenex in my pocket, and am glad to have seen the long awaited final part!
I ought to note, there may be a slight spoiler in here for someone who hasn't read the book or seen the movie - proceed with caution!!
I have a tendency to agree with Ilse with regard to some scenes not being quite what I expected, and some scenes absent. Am sincerely hoping that they WERE shot, and that they will find their way into the extended edition. The hint of Eowyn and Faramir standing together at the coronation makes me hope that there will be more of that particular story in the dvd, since Eowyn is one of my favourite characters. The beginning seemed awkward and disjointed but I felt that it just got better and better towards the end with the focus (rightly) being on the people and the relationships, rather than the overwhelming special effects of the battles.
If I was to highlight one performance, it would be Sean Astin's. I think he was just fantastic in a role that so easily could have been overly sentimental and shallow. And I think Peter Jackson did a great job with the ending, which after all the wait, could have been such an anti-climax (although, my choice would have been to end it with the look that Frodo gives the hobbits aimed directly at the camera - I thought that was really a wonderful shot.
All in all, I really enjoyed it, and I am looking forward to the extended edition which I am hoping will live up to the other two.
HM |
| Lainey |
Posted - January 08 2004 : 12:10:18 PM
Hi, Ariel,
I am SO glad you posted this! I came across it recently & emailed it to Ilse - hilarious & scholarly, indeed!
A must read parody!!!!! |
| asegal |
Posted - January 07 2004 : 6:49:13 PM
Hilarious and scholarly Web parody...
Hi all. I just wanted to point you to
http://www.mark-shea.com/LOTR.html
This is a parody of the documentary hypothesis
(The claim that the Torah/Pentateuch was composed over centuries by different authors as opposed to given by God to Moses)using LOTR,
and the redactors "T" (Tolkien) and "PJ" Peter Jackson.
Whether you hold by the DH or not, if you are a Tolkien fan, you'll enjoy it!
ROTK is magnificent, by the way... just two quibbles
1) Not as much of the original dialogue as the 1979 Rankin-Bass cartoon (which has a fond place in my heart, as it introduced me
to LOTR, though I already had seen the Hobbit cartoon)[A geeky objection, I know)
2) Too drawn out and slow an ending (though frankly, I didn't mind much; my brother and I visited the restroom midway and had no problems on that front)
Overall, magnificent, and I think it will get Best Picture!
Best, Ariel
|
| Ilse |
Posted - January 01 2004 : 2:52:45 PM
It's just too bad I can't see the extended edition on the big screen though....
Oh, funny, I saw Ralph Bakshi's animated version from 1978 on TV today. I had totally forgotten about that one. Lots of vikings in there |
| Jo |
Posted - December 31 2003 : 2:25:35 PM
As Doc M stated, I also read that DDL originally was to be Aragon; but declined due to the long shoot - probably couldn't get away from his cobbler duties; not enough vacation accrued.
Watching the three of them: Aragon, Legolas and Gimminliiiissii; (always poor on spelling here) run over hill and dale, I am always reminded of LOTM. In fact, the family, well trained by now, also noted this fact. Now, the burning question, did Jackson have them use Addidas or Reebok?
I haven't see the latest installment yet; although my boys have, with mixed reviews. I never read the books in my youth; not being into hobbits or talking trees at all, but I must admit I was very entertained by the first two movies and look forward to the latest one.
At least Mr. Townsend isn't Aragon; although I would rather have watched DDL; Viggo is pretty easy on the eye.
Jo |
| Lainey |
Posted - December 31 2003 : 12:28:26 PM
I heard a nearly identical review from someone else; pretty much called it as you did, Ilse. She enjoyed it very much, though, despite the flaws. (And she's an avid Tolkien fan.)
Can't wait to see the extended edition. |
| Ilse |
Posted - December 31 2003 : 11:16:28 AM
I felt the movie was rushed in places and too slow in other places. Also, I'm not happy with what was left out and what remained in. I think some of the battle stuff could have been cut to make room for some crucial scenes. Probably the extended edition will solve some of those issues for me. Then there were some subjects I thought Jackson didn't handle very well.
Overall, I did enjoy the movie a lot, it is visually breathtaking, but I didn't get that sense of involvement and excitement I had with the first two. Maybe my expectations were just too high
|
| Kurt |
Posted - December 31 2003 : 07:32:16 AM
I am trying to decide how to photograph thinking but without much luck... |
| Kurt |
Posted - December 30 2003 : 9:27:44 PM
We just got back from seeing the movie and I was surprized how close Jackson was able to get. If he was allowed to present 40-50 hours of film, I'm sure he could have come closer to the book. Jackson definitely respects the Professor's work. The movie was condensed and simplified but had good spirit. |
| Ilse |
Posted - December 30 2003 : 5:34:11 PM
Well, I saw it last night. And I'm very sorry Sarge, but I am disappointed. Spectacular movie, but hasn't anything to do with the original story anymore |
| SgtMunro |
Posted - December 20 2003 : 10:10:26 AM
quote:
At the risk of possibly offending everyone, I've kinda been bored with these films. Just too much of the same repetative formula for my taste.
You are not offending me, Ranger. Movies are like ice cream, which is why there is always more than one "flavor" available at any given time. As to the repetative formula, well, movies (and before them, stage performances) follow several basic outlines which have remained unchanged since the time of the Ancient Greeks.
quote:
But what I'd really like to see is a good WWI epic on the scale of "Band of Brothers." There have been so few WWI films made, and those that were, were done at a time when they didn't have the technology to do it right.
I agree, that would be definately worth watching.
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
| CT•Ranger |
Posted - December 19 2003 : 5:22:54 PM
At the risk of possibly offending everyone, I've kinda been bored with these films. Just too much of the same repetative formula for my taste. Now if you like long shots of the actors gazing off into the distance, then these films are awesome, but I kinda find it boring. And if you add up all the scenes with any dialogue from all three films, it would probably amount to little more than an hour.
That being said, the scenery is very good. And in this last one, the 6,000 horsemen of Rohan charging into 10,000 orcs was truly awesome! But in my opinion there's just too many unnecessary close ups of slimy ugly orcs, and people gazing into the distance with various facial expressions.
Now as for films I'd like to see made, the rest of the Leatherstocking Tales would be cool, but very unlikely.
But what I'd really like to see is a good WWI epic on the scale of "Band of Brothers." There have been so few WWI films made, and those that were, were done at a time when they didn't have the technology to do it right. |
| SgtMunro |
Posted - December 19 2003 : 4:20:09 PM
quote:
Hope you guys keep me posted on your experiences.
Well, Ilse, Lady Munro and I went to see it last night. So that I will not spoil it for you, I'll keep my commentary brief. Return of the King is of the same quality as the first two of the trilogy, that being it stays true to JRT's original stories/mythos. Excellent work of screenplay art, you will not be disappointed.
quote:
There was an interview with director Peter Jackson last week,who stated that he is warming the idea of a "Hobbit" movie as well.
I hope he does decide to do the prequel, Captain.
quote:
As for Michael Mann doing an F&I series of movies,I'd love to see it.I was also hoping for the Carlyle/Sayles film too,but we'll see.
Don't hold your breath, and don't expect too much...
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
| Highlander |
Posted - December 18 2003 : 4:53:43 PM
I saw this at the midnite showing on Tuesday.Awesome!There was an interview with director Peter Jackson last week,who stated that he is warming the idea of a "Hobbit" movie as well.
As for Michael Mann doing an F&I series of movies,I'd love to see it.I was also hoping for the Carlyle/Sayles film too,but we'll see.
What we do have now is "The War That Made America" www.thewarthatmadeamerica.org currently in production for PBS. |
| susquesus |
Posted - December 17 2003 : 8:10:38 PM
Agreed, how about a "Leatherstocking Trilogy" "Deerslayer", "Last of the Mohicans", and "Pathfinder". Hook Michael Mann up with the crews from "Saving Private Ryan" and "The Patriot", dump say $250,000,000 into it, release over 6 years. I like it. |
| Grenouille |
Posted - December 17 2003 : 8:01:18 PM
I went and saw the movie today....battle scenes and special effects are some the best I've ever seen.....I give it on a scale of 1 - 10 rings 0 <--(that's a ring) 0000000000(10)...though the end was a little mushy and somewhat over dramatized....if you take your wife or girlfriend, make sure they have plenty of hankys.....they'll need 'em!
Now if we can only get someone to make a French and Indian War or Rev War movie of that calibre!!!!!!!!
|
| Ilse |
Posted - December 17 2003 : 3:58:23 PM
I really enjoyed the TTT extended edition, except for the "Eowyn can't cook" scene. I thought that one was rather silly
Return of the King is getting rave reviews here! Unfortunately, I won't see it until after Christmas 
Hope you guys keep me posted on your experiences.
Scott, you don't want to see it, so you can keep the images you got from reading the book in your head?
|
| SgtMunro |
Posted - December 16 2003 : 08:34:40 AM
quote:
Have you seen the extended edition, yet? What are your thoughts on it?
Well Ilse, I have finally got my hands on the 4-DVD Extended Edition of 'The Two Towers'. What can I say, "Wow!!!" It is truly worth the extra cash, just like the 4-DVD Extended Edition of 'Fellowship of the Ring'. You have to get it, you will not be disappointed!!!!
P.S.- Only three more days till 'Return of the King' opens here in the U.S. I can't wait!!!
Your Most Humble Servant,
|
| Dances with Beagles |
Posted - December 14 2003 : 8:27:39 PM
quote:
Originally posted by richfed
By the way, anyone ever notice some LOTM/LOTR similarities? Something in the way the main non-hobbit hero - Aragon??? - carries himself reminds me of Hawkeye [DDL version] ... other things crossed my mind as I watched, as well.
YES! I thought I was the only one, but apparently not! Aragorn is quite the heroic figure, like Hawkeye. And Viggo Mortensen is quite the dude, like DDL! From what I've read, he walked around with his sword much of the time, the same way DDL walked around "in character". Maybe that's typical of those intense, heroic actor types?
quote:
I guess I see LOTM in everything ... sad, but true.
And that's a problem...how?!!!!
|
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