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chasis_22
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
April 19 2003
Status: offline
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 Posted - March 26 2005 : 2:22:00 PM
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Ok I always knew that we would be divided on our views of Uncas and Alice but this is getting out of hand. This site is supposed to be fun. In the time I have spent at this site I have never seen claws come out over any of our topics. Eilan I think that it was very out of line for you to post in such a harsh way. Judging by your title I am assuming you are still fairly new to this site so I am going to put it to you and everyone else like this.
We are a family here. We respect each other's opinions and views. The "Alice and Uncas Romance" is a topic that has been going on for years and as said in many other posts...is likely to go on for many more. There is no reason to get nasty with anyone here because their opinion doesn't match your own.
Now as far as the whole Uncas and Alice were lovers thing goes...it doesn't matter. We have for the most part chosen our sides of the fence on the romance between the two based on what we observed in the movie. I, like many others here stick to my guns that there was romance there. But I also take time to see things from the other side of the fence. It is possible to see it both ways. Personally I think MM did that on purpose but that is my opinion. You should embrace the opinions of others and not be so close minded.
As far as you saying that there are no doubts about Alice loving Uncas because it is (this kills me) FACT!.....sweetie there are very little of those in this movie. Why, because the movie itself is fictional. Try not to get so offensive about your views on the movie...especially if you are going to base your conclusions on parts of a script that weren't even used. You are more than welcome to post your opinions but it is very disrespectful to do it in such a rude manner.
With that said I am going to sit on my side of the fence with the rest of the Uncas nutts and find the biggest, nastiest, rotten tomatoes to throw at Wilderness Woman and Silent Thunder! Cover your heads it's gonna get messy! |
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misschanelno5
Pioneer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
July 01 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - March 26 2005 : 7:08:07 PM
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Well-said, chasis-22! I especially admire your point suggesting Michael Mann might have chosen to strive for ambiguity. In an age where an overwhelming number of popular films are those with their points clearly made and their lines firmly drawn, I find that the bravery to entertain ambiguity is really refreshing. And far more interesting than black-and-white -- much more like that incredibly messy real-life stuff! 
P.S. Hope I can dodge those tomatoes too! |
"Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination."
"Arguments are to be avoided; they are always vulgar and often convincing."
-- Oscar Wilde |
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chasis_22
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
April 19 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - March 27 2005 : 12:27:47 PM
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| Thank you misschanelno5. I just hate to see nasty posts when there is really no need for it. And as for MM. You will never convince me that he did not intentionally make the Alice and Uncas romance thing unclear. I betcha he is kicking back with a bag of popcorn and laughing at the debates that have gone on and thinking to himself..."I'm good"! That's alright though...just wait til we tie him up and demand our extra footage! |
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Light of the Moon
Mohicanland Statesman
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
December 18 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - March 28 2005 : 2:12:55 PM
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| Ok,ok,ok...I have to know. There are so many other political and moral issues that could use such energy as we've seen on this topic. The whole Uncas/Alice relationship is fictional. This site was intended for fun. Not cat fighting. As for "Whether or not MM intended to portray the relationship unclearly or not" I'd like to know who here has talked to MM directly? End of story. |
I live in my own little world - but that's okay, they know me here! |
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UncasLover13
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - March 28 2005 : 7:37:33 PM
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I agree, Chasis 22! Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but let's express our opinions in a nice, polite manner! ;)
--Nora |
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Wilderness Woman
Watcher of the Wood
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - March 28 2005 : 7:59:12 PM
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Easy there, Ladies... Easy....
Let's all just step back, take a deep breath and calm down a little. I know this is a very... er... passionate... subject, more for some than for others. Chasis 22, there are board moderators, such as myself, here who can take care of situations like this... please? I think that perhaps Eilan was a "hit and run" poster.
Let's put the claws away and not yell at each other, alright? Obviously, the story of Uncas and Alice and who loved whom, or not, will never be decided. You will all never agree. But let's not take the fun out of it for everyone. And don't force me to call out the Militia!
Thank you for your cooperation.
Psssssst..... Seamus? Sgt. Munro? Get your muskets ready just in case.....
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"It is more deeply stirring to my blood than any imaginings could possibly have been." |
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Seamus
Guardian of Heaven's Gate
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 19 2002
Status: offline
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Posted - March 30 2005 : 2:57:08 PM
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I am here, WW....over here...leaning against this big pine tree, quietly observing......I am here, and I've got you covered.
While I am not a Moderator on this particular Forum, I am a Moderator on others,and I do advise when I am asked. I have been asked......so here goes.
People...the key word here is 'civility'. I would like to remind everyone to be polite and civil to all on this Board, as you would want them to be to you. While we might not agree with someone's points or their views on a given subject, this is not a reason to be nasty or condescending. If you have a problem with something that someone writes the best thing to do is to write to the person privately not insight a flame war or to publicly insult that person. Personal attacks will not tolerated on the Board. If you do not agree with someone's documentation or theories, we can have civilized discussions on the matter. Everything has more than one possibility, and there is room for all sides of an issue. If you cannot be civil, then do not contribute. You do not have to agree, you only have to respect the other person and their opinions.
Moderators have the power and authority to lock topics, recommend suspension or outright banning for egregious violations. Rarely called upon to enforce it, it can happen. We all hope it never comes to that point.
There have been some instances in the past which have caused serious rifts and driven good folks away from Mohicanland. I don't want to see that happen again. There is room for everyone.
Now..........that having been said, let's step back, take a deep breath, think about how you can get your point across civilly, and we can then have a good debate.
.......and put those damned tomatoes down.
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Life's journey is not to
arrive at the grave safely
in a well preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting
'...holy sh*t ...what a ride!'
~~Mavis Leyrer, Seattle
Seamus
~~Aim small, hit the b*****d right between the eyes!~~ |
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silentthunder
Pioneer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
December 15 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - March 30 2005 : 5:15:58 PM
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Chasis 22, please aim lower. My makeup is ruined, you keep hitting me in my eye.
Ouch!!  My mascara is running down my cheeks. Where on earth am I suppose to buy some more makeup, since I'm stuck here in the middle of the wilderness.
Get ready cause now I'm throwing anything I can find over to your side of the fence. Watch out here comes the potatoes, corn, my shoes, and whatever else I could find to throw. lol.... |
Mitaku Oyasin...
We are all related |
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Lurking Huron7638
Anonymous Guest
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
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Posted - April 05 2005 : 1:11:30 PM
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There was a longer Preview Version of the "Last of the Mohicans" that made it quite clear that Alice and Uncas had fallen in love. There were no overt scenes - just a series of extended exchanges of "looks" between the two, mainly at the fort. That exchange of "looks" that you guys are talking about when Uncas drives the horses away was only the first in a series of these exchanges of looks in the Preview Edition. Taken together, they add up to an obvious undercurrent of growing interest between the two of them. Russell Means talks about this use of the exchange of looks between Alice and Uncas as being the primary means for conveying the message that the two were falling in love.
Also in the Preview Version, at the end, Alice does look down and sees Uncas' body. There was then a shot of their two bodies lying side by side down at the bottom of the cliff. The meaning of the ending in the Preview Version was pretty obvious - Alice jumped to join Uncas in death.
The current version of this movie is very, very confused as to whether there is an Alice-Uncas love affair or not. When I first saw this version of the movie, having seen the Preview Version twice, I sure was confused. Without the series of exchanges of meaningful glances between them, when Uncas grabs and hugs Alice under the waterfall, it almost looks like he's making a pass at her, an unwanted sexual harrassment type of move. In the Preview Version, it was more obvious that when he did this that Alice would welcome a hug from him.
And the ending! Think about it! Currently, with no obvious love affair between the two of them, ask yourself, why does Uncas race ahead of his compatriots to attack Magua's war party single handedly, only to get himself killed? Why then does Alice jump off the cliff, seconds before her rescuers arrive on the scene? When they die, there is only a wide angle shot of the cliff. You can barely see their bodies at the bottom, they are just tiny specks.
The current version demeans their deaths, by making them appear foolish, rather than as besotted lovers. |
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chasis_22
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
April 19 2003
Status: offline
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Posted - April 05 2005 : 3:27:25 PM
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| Very interesting LH7638. I am going to have to see that version you are talking about. Now as for you Silent thunder. Your shoe hit me in the head and gave me a knott! It's on like donkey kong now missy! You thought the tomatoes were bad....well you ain't seen nothin yet! COW PATTY FIGHT! |
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UncasLover13
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
May 17 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - April 05 2005 : 7:49:47 PM
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How can I get my hands on that version, LH7638?? Is there any way?? Please let me know. :)
--UL13 |
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Lurking Huron7638
Anonymous Guest
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
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Posted - April 08 2005 : 01:37:00 AM
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I saw the Preview version in 1992, and have never seen it again since. If you search the archives of this message board, you will find posts where others have seen preview versions of this movie also. There may have been more than one preview version, and this is implied in the recent Madeleine Stowe interview posted on this site. Michael Mann appears to have been test marketing different cuts of his movie. This might account for why there are some differences in the posted accounts of the Preview Version.
But one thing that seems to be consistent - the Preview Version(s) was (were) longer, and the Alice-Uncas love affair was left in.
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Lurking Huron7638
Anonymous Guest
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
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Posted - April 08 2005 : 02:12:05 AM
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Here's a recent article from the April 5, 2005 Los Angeles Times that might give all the fans on this message board some hope:
Give me 'MacGyver'! Demand leads to DVDs
· Fans ask for a favorite show or film on disc and studios respond. Input on bonus material, packaging is also sought.
By Elaine Dutka, Times Staff Writer
Tyson Craemer, a 22-year-old graphic design student, is crazy about Jim Henson's "Fraggle Rock" series, a show about three civilizations cohabiting the same universe. It debuted on HBO in 1983 — the year after Craemer was born. His hopes for a DVD resurrection faltered when the Hallmark Channel canceled reruns a few years ago.
Undeterred, he was one of 30,000 petitioners for a home video release. Late last year came word that HIT Entertainment, lured by the prospect of a passionate, easy-to-reach audience, would release two DVDs in January and another on April 15.
Craemer and his obsession have plenty of company. In recent years, e-mail campaigns and fan demand have also triggered DVDs of Universal Studios' "The Big Lebowski," 20th Century Fox's "Simon and Garfunkel: The Concert in Central Park," Lions Gate's "Glengarry Glen Ross" and Paramount Pictures' "MacGyver" series. Home video executives peruse websites such as dvdtalk.com and dvdfile .com in search of requests — and complaints.
If it's not exactly democracy in action, it is a lively trend in home video research: probing the consumer mind-set to determine which DVDs are most in demand, what bonus features would bolster sales and what packaging is most appealing.
The Web is the great equalizer, Craemer says by phone from his home in Boca Raton, Fla. "Hollywood doesn't have to guess what the customers want — we're telling them," he says.
And they're listening. Home video executives at 20th Century Fox meet semiannually with a group called Home Theater Forum, whose members fly out at their own expense to weigh in on upcoming product. MGM's "Showgirls" DVD included a feature-length audio commentary, "The Greatest Movie Ever Made," by super-fan David Schmader — a novel take for a film skewered by critics. Sony Pictures, meanwhile, put alternative packaging concepts for TV's "Party of Five" online, shelving its initial choice when 85% of respondents opted for another.
"Interacting with fans becomes a great marketing vehicle, one with a huge payoff," says Don Rosenberg, publisher of the Santa Ana-based Home Media Retailing Magazine. "You're letting them know a title is on the way without spending any advertising dollars. It's also a reality check for insulated Hollywood executives and a means of generating goodwill."
Lions Gate found out just how valuable fan input can be with "The Crying Game." Logging on to a website, the distributor stumbled onto rumors about an alternate ending, one confirmed by director Neil Jordan. That footage was included on a DVD released in January. On its "T-2 Special Edition," director James Cameron reversed a decision not to record commentary, at fans' urging.
Based on information gathered from the Web, focus groups and screenings, Universal Studios scheduled two separate DVD launches in the fall of 2003 for Brian De Palma's "Scarface" — a New York event featuring stars Michelle Pfeiffer and Al Pacino and a gala in Puerto Rico attended by more than 300 urban disc jockeys — catering to its hard-core hip-hop audience. In response to public interest, the studio is releasing the Coen brothers' "The Big Lebowski" on home video later this year.
"We're going to coordinate the launch around one of the 'Lebowski' fests," says Ken Graffeo, executive vice president of marketing for Universal Studios Home Entertainment. "A lot of these movies develop fans afterward … who would have known?"
Warner Bros.' catalog division has also been aggressive in soliciting feedback. Last week, executives participated in an annual online chat, moderated by the Home Theater |
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Lurking Huron7638
Anonymous Guest
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
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Posted - April 08 2005 : 02:36:00 AM
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I e-mailed Elaine Dutka, the writer of the LA Times article, about how to contact some of these people, and today she sent a reply back that the contact person for Fox was Steve Feldstein. His phone number is 310-369-5369.
So what are you guys waiting for? Start a new campaign! Work on the distributor end of things! Michael Mann is a busy guy and an artist with plenty of stuff to do. He has better things to do besides responding to the desires of fans.
But distributors - a different story! Mostly they just see that there is this stuff sitting in their film libraries not earning any money, and if they can find some way to turn that unused footage or that never- seen- since- 1992 Preview Version of LOTM into gold.....
You see what I mean?
I would note also that there is a similar situation brewing with a Special Edition DVD of "Blade Runner". I don't know how many of you guys have seen the DVD vs. VHS vs Theatrical Release versions of Blade Runner, but Ridley Scott did a slash and burn on the DVD Director's Cut, which a lot of fans hated. Like LOTM, the Director's Cut is the only version of Blade Runner on DVD currently. Recently, pressure from fans has caused work on a 3-disc Special Edition version of "Blade Runner", with three versions of the movie - the original theatrical release, the Director's Cut, and a new Director's Cut, to begin. Unfortunately, the Special Edition DVD set has been hung up by legal problems. This is all spelled out in the customer review section of Amazon.com for Blade Runner.
So, like Arwen said:
"There is still hope...." |
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silentthunder
Pioneer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
December 15 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - April 10 2005 : 12:12:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by chasis_22
Very interesting LH7638. I am going to have to see that version you are talking about. Now as for you Silent thunder. Your shoe hit me in the head and gave me a knott! It's on like donkey kong now missy! You thought the tomatoes were bad....well you ain't seen nothin yet! COW PATTY FIGHT!
Chasis, give me back my shoe!!  You have no idea how uncomfortable it has been limping around with only one shoe. If you don't give it back, you'll leave me with no choice but to throw you with the other one, and give you another knot.  |
Mitaku Oyasin...
We are all related |
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Lurking Huron9931
Anonymous Guest
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
November 27 2002
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Posted - April 10 2005 : 12:27:32 AM
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| Lurking Huron7638, that's some really awesome info! I'm sure there's a thread about getting another DVD released somewhere, maybe someone should copy it into that thread. I'm sure other people besides those of us who want to see more Alice/Uncas would be interested in a Special Edition DVD too and probably wouldn't think to look in this thread ;) |
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chasis_22
Colonial Settler
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
April 19 2003
Status: offline
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silentthunder
Pioneer
USA
Bumppo's Patron since [at least]:
December 15 2004
Status: offline
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Posted - April 13 2005 : 11:39:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by chasis_22
Take your best shot silent thunder!
Aiming-->>Throwing-->>Doink-->> Mission accomplished!!
I guess now you're definitely not returning my other shoe. It's OK, my Uncas just made me moccasins.  |
Mitaku Oyasin...
We are all related |
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Alice looks towrds Uncas
